Tucker Carlson is not about to be intimidated by his news media colleagues into ceding the supposed moral high ground on immigration.
Witness Jorge Ramos, Spanish-language Univision journalist and fierce Donald Trump opponent.
Ramos was invited on Tucker Carlson’s show to defend the left’s position on immigration laws; namely, that there shouldn’t be any.
“The Mexican drug war has become a lot bloodier than most Americans understand,” Tucker said. “It’s never covered here. Here are the facts. More 23,000 people were murdered in Mexico just last year as drug cartels fight each other and the Mexican government. Drugs continue to pour across the American border in massive amounts, killing tens of thousands of Americans.
“Fear of letting this into our country is one reason the Trump Administration has called for a border wall,” Tucker continued. “Not everybody is on board. We discussed this issue with Jorge Ramos.”
“When last we spoke, you said the U.S. has 11 million illegal immigrants within its borders because of supply and demand,” Tucker said. “And it’s America’s fault these people were here. They were lured in by jobs. But the flip side is that remittance goes back to Mexico. Mexico needs American money sent back by illegal immigrants here. Why shouldn’t we blame the government of Mexico for that?” he asked.
“Well, first ever all I don’t call them illegal aliens. No human being is illegal,” Ramos objected.
“If you they are here illegally, they are illegal,” Tucker retorted.
“You can use it if you want,” Ramos conceded.
“It’s the legal term in U.S. Government documents,” Carlson pointed out.
“I will go the moral point of view. You should not call anyone illegal,” Ramos claimed.
“Except those who are illegal,” Tucker responded. “I won’t be bullied and will call them what they are. The government of Mexico could not do without them.”
“They get billion dollars from Mexico in the United States,” Ramos said. “But undocumented illegal immigrants are here because we need them. You might not want to admit. They are supply and demand. When you go to a hotel or a restaurant, we are served by them.”
“I know you are big on lecturing Americans on their failings, but what about the failings of the Mexican government?” Tucker asked. “They don’t serve its own people but it’s 100% America’s fault and not the fault of the Mexican government that uses illegal immigrants as a pressure relief valve.”
“I think you chose the wrong guest to defend the Mexican government,” Ramos retorted. “I have criticized them for decades. It’s really corrupt. More than 20,000 people have been killed because of violence in Mexico. We will have elections in Mexico on July 1st and I hope that changes. I am no one to defend the Mexican government. There is a lack of democracy, there’s a lack of transparency, there’s a lot of corruption…there’s really nothing to defend.”
“You are saying that our illegal immigration problems are our fault,” Tucker said. “When in fact, abetting illegal immigration is the policy of the Mexican government. The single largest source of heroin in the United States is Mexico… Why shouldn’t we be angry at the government of Mexico for allowing this to happen here?”
“Well, because there is a different way of seeing that,” Ramos replied. “You see it as Mexico is responsible for the drugs coming to this country. The way people in Mexico and Columbia and other Latin-american countries, they see it as as long as you have 22-25 million Americans who use continually illegal drugs. It’s the problem of supply and demand. It doesn’t matter what you do at the border and it doesn’t matter if you have a huge wall. Drugs will keep coming.”
Then it got real.
“That’s what the drug dealer tells himself to sleep at night,” Tucker said. “He says ‘it’s not my fault, it’s the junkie’s fault.’ If you flood a community with illegal drugs, do you think drug use goes up? Of course, that’s a rhetorical question, because the answer is yes.’
The two continued to debate drug policy matters, before the conversation turned to the wall.
“Let’s be honest. Not building a wall is not making the problem better. People are dying as a result of it,” Tucker said.
“The wall would be useless.”
“How do you know that?” Tucker replied. “Let’s look at walls from history. How many are useless?”
“I will give you just a few arguments,” Ramos responded. “Forty-five percent of all undocumented illegal immigrants come by plane or with a visa.”
Ramos replied, “Forty-five percent. You can check it.”
“I think that number is right,” Tucker conceded. “But there are still half a million people apprehended at the border every year on foot. That doesn’t account for people who made it across. You have hundreds of thousands of people coming across with no wall. You have tons and tons of drugs. Why is it immoral to try to stop that?”
That’s the million dollar question.
“Because the idea that you are giving your audience and that President Trump is giving the American people is that we are being invaded by Mexico. That more Mexicans are living in the U.S.,” Ramos responded.
“I am saying tons of drugs and hundreds of thousands of people,” Tucker said. “I’m not saying we’re being ‘invaded.’ Tons of heroin and hundreds of thousands of people are coming across. Many would be stopped by the wall. Why is it immoral to put a lock on our front door? I don’t understand. Why should we be scolded for protecting our own country? I don’t get that.”
“I agree with you. Every single country has the right to secure borders,” Ramos said. “I have no problem with that.”
“But you are arguing against the wall,” Tucker said, as confused as the rest of us.
“The wall that President Trump wants to build would be useless,” Ramos said. “There is no invasion from Mexico. It’s not true that hundreds of thousands of people are coming to this country. The undocumented population has remained stable in this country for the last decade. Third, of course Mexico won’t pay for the wall.”
There you have it. While opponents of border security and immigration restrictions are obsessed with political rhetoric, those who want tighter border security are more concerned with facts and sensible policy.
It’s almost as if the Democratic Party has ulterior motives for wanting unchecked immigration in practice, when even hard left journalists like Ramos concede “every single country has the right to secure borders.”
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