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Fox News’ Martha MacCallum accused a Black Lives Matter leader of engaging in a “circular conversation” after he repeatedly refused to answer her questions about looting.
A heated interview unfolded on “The Story” Tuesday as Hawk Newsome, the chair of Black Lives Matter of Greater New York, rudely shot back at the Fox News anchor while defending looting as a form of “reparations.”
(Source: Fox News)
Newsome began by responding to comments made on MacCallum’s show the previous evening by former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who called out Black Lives Matter as an “illegal organization.”
“The president really should consider very carefully declaring Black Lives Matter a domestic terrorist organization,” he said. “They were basically engaged in stealing, so this is an illegal organization and their intent is to overthrow our government.”
Asked by MacCallum about his thoughts on Giuliani’s remarks about BLM, Newsome launched a personal attack instead.
“It’s funny, you phrase it, the former mayor of New York City and the reason why it’s funny is because nobody liked Rudy Giuliani as a mayor,” Newsome said, claiming he has done nothing but “run his mouth” since becoming a “national figure” for his handling of the September 11 terror attack in the city.
“What has mayor Giuliani done since nine eleven except run his mouth? How has Rudolph Giuliani benefited America? This man’s children don’t even like him,” Newsome claimed.
“I don’t want to make it personal,” MacCallum interjected.
“It is personal when you talk about him because he is trying to define peaceful — sometimes, most of the time –peaceful protesters as terrorists. If he really wanted to talk about terrorism he would talk about the KKK, who is responsible for bloodshed over hundreds of years,” Newsome added.
“I hear what you’re saying,” MacCallum said, adding “I don’t want to get personal about Rudy Giuliani and his family, it doesn’t really get us anywhere.”
She tried to clarify that Giuliani was using the label to describe those who were looting stores and not people who were peacefully protesting.
“So when America goes and steals diamonds and oils, who’s calling us terrorists?” Newsome asked. “When the American government goes and pillages different countries, who’s calling us terrorists?”
MacCallum attempted to direct the conversation again, asking “are you saying that it’s okay to steal and loot because of those other things that have happened which are also bad,” as she turned to a video clip of recent remarks by Chicago BLM activist Ariel Atkins, who defended the act of looting as a form of reparations.
“Well, so we are moving on past Rudy Giuliani and we’re moving into looting and a form of reparation,” Newsome said, going on to lecture the Fox News anchor.
“Let’s be very careful, Martha. Let’s be very careful and I’d appreciate if you let me speak,” he said.
“The problem with oppression and white supremacy is, white supremacy will have you criticizing the oppressed and worshiping the oppressors. Now, if you want to talk to me about reparations, nothing falls short of a solution other than people cutting a check. If you want to do something about reparations, cut the check,” he continued.
“And we’re not talking about going in every day Americans’ pockets, we are talking about banks … who benefited from slavery. Other insurance companies that sold insurance policies on …” Newsome went on before MacCallum interrupted to get him to respond to the initial question.
“I asked you a question, in fairness,” MacCallum tried to interrupt. “I listened to you and I want you to answer my question. Listen to me, sir. I asked you a question. Do you think …”
“You want to know what reparations is, I’m telling you,” Newsome shot back. “That’s what I’m telling you.”
“Do you think, do you agree that it’s okay to go in and break the windows at Gucci’s or Macy’s or Nike because it makes sure that person eats and that person has clothes?” MacCallum asked again. “That was my question to you. Is that ethically okay to you? Is it?”
“Okay, okay. Before I answer that, I want to ask you this,” Newsome responded. “Do you think it’s okay that our government kills people in their homes like Breonna Taylor?”
“No I don’t think that’s okay. Of course, I don’t think that’s okay,” MacCallum shot back. “No, you don’t answer my question. I’m trying to have a conversation.”
“No one thinks that’s okay. That’s why you have two-thirds of America who say they support Black Lives Matter because they don’t ever want to see police brutality in this country,” the Fox News host said, as Newsome continued his rant.
“But you are not answering my question, which is whether or not it’s okay to take away people’s livelihoods because you deserve the stuff that’s in the broken window, okay? There’s two different issues here, and I wish you had answered my question, which you said you would but you didn’t,” MacCallum added.
But the BLM leader went on trying to make his point until MacCallum finally shut him down.
“You are having a circular conversation,” she said as the Fox News screen returned to just MacCallum.“You don’t want to answer questions about looting and stealing and breaking windows so, hopefully we can have another conversation and we can answer each other’s questions.”
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