Fox News’ Martha MacCallum locked horns with Juan Williams in a fiery debate on the government shutdown.
The heated discussion on the shutdown, funding for the border wall and President Donald Trump’s impending State of the Union address escalated during Wednesday’s “The Story With Martha MacCallum” until MacCallum exploded at Williams, who then suggested conservatives like colleague Sean Hannity are running the government.
Former Bush Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove slammed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for her political motivation in asking Trump to delay the State of the Union, which he called “absolutely irresponsible.” Williams, who countered that the president is taking a hard line as both sides refuse to compromise on border wall funding, clashed with MacCallum over the hypocrisy of Democrats.
“They’ve already said they would agree to building a border fence. They’ve said it for the past eight years,” MacCallum exclaimed as Williams argued back.
“What difference does it make what it is called, Juan?” she asked the liberal co-host of “The Five,” questioning whether he wants to allow open access at the U.S. border.
“You’re hung up on whether or not the thing is called a wall,” MacCallum said when Williams replied that he wanted “border security” and “a legal asylum process.”
“No no no,” Williams shot back. “He wants a wall that is ineffective and inefficient.”
Rove interjected as he and Williams got into a back and forth over the effectiveness of border walls and the impact existing barriers have made on illegal border crossings. Though Williams appeared to agree with some points, he continued to argue against Trump’s proposed “sea to shining sea” wall.
“Juan, I hate to have to correct you, but read the goddang bill!” Rove suggested.
“You should go listen to Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter, because they’re running this government!” Williams exclaimed in response.
“No they are not! That is not what the president proposed,” MacCallum shot back.
The three continued to speak over one another until the nearly six-minute segment wound down due to time.
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