Giuliani goes head to head with Wallace on Trump hush payments: ‘It doesn’t matter … it’s not illegal!

Screengrab Michael Cohen

“Fox News Sunday” host Chris Wallace grilled President Donald Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani over whether his client paid hush money to porn star Stormy Daniels and Playboy model Karen McDougal.

Wallace got annoyed that Giuliani reacted as any attorney, other than Trump’s former personal lawyer Michael Cohen, might be expected to act — by protecting his client. Not that he didn’t get the answer he was seeking up front when he played a clip of Cohen saying Trump is not to be believed, before asking Giuliani, “Does the president tell the truth or not?”

“The president is telling the truth, yes. This man is lying,” Giuliani stated unequivocally.

He also reminded Wallace that Cohen “was the lawyer in that situation,” meaning it was Cohen’s job to know what’s legal and what is not. Giuliani added prosecutors will “never” put Cohen, who he called a “pathological liar,” on the witness stand.

Wallace countered that “the real question is the credibility of the president, not the credibility of Michael Cohen,” noting that Trump has “changed his story repeatedly” on knowing about the payments.


After playing audio of a tape Cohen secretly recorded of a conversation with Trump where a payment’s discussed, Wallace asked: “So which is it? Did the president know about the hush money payments or not?”

Giuliani responded by saying the discussion was about reimbursing Cohen after the payment was made, with Wallace disputing the dates.

The Fox News host brought up a reported meeting between Trump, Cohen and former National Enquirer publisher David Pecker, where a payment to McDougal was said to have been discussed.


“We’re talking about something that doesn’t matter,” Giuliani said. “Whether it happened or it didn’t happen, it’s not illegal.”

“You’re moving shells around on me,” Wallace replied. “Either it happened it or didn’t happen.”

“That’s what lawyers do all the time,” Giuliani explained. “Arguing the alternative.”

“I’m asking you for the truth, sir,” Wallace interjected.

“I want the truth too,” the former New York City mayor said. “And the truth is, yes, the tape-recorded conversation did take place and it exonerates the president.”

Wallace all but acted as if he expected Giuliani to go on national television and implicate the president.


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