‘Lunch lady said I can’t pray,’ 5-year-old tells her parents

Imagine hearing this story from your 5-year-old when you ask her how her day was in kindergarten.

Kudos to these parents for staying calm and teaching this little girl that she can pray absolutely anywhere she wants.

Marcos Perez posted the touching video on You Tube with the following explanation:

My wife and I were shocked when our 5-year-old daughter began to tell us that someone on staff at her school saw her praying – told her to stop – and said “it is not good”. This is Kindergarten. She was praying to herself for her food, following the biblical values we are working hard to instill in our children. We are so proud of our little princess and as you can see – we continue to affirm her that prayer IS GOOD and that NO ONE can tell her she can’t pray. No doubt we will homeschool going forward.

We live in the United States of America – the land of the free, yet our traditional values and religious freedoms are under assault. This is just a small example.

Actress makes a stand on ‘Dancing With the Stars’; refuses to compromise Christian faith

 

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About Michele Kirk

Michele Kirk is a writer, editor, and field reporter for BizPac Review. Michele can be reached at michele@bizpacreview.com & @michelekirkbpr

  • Janette Miller

    What a mean teacher. Schools are all commie now. WTG for home schooling her now. Sue the school now.

    • Beth Reynolds

      worse she said it was the lunch lady

      • EliseR

        She said it was the “lunch teacher.” So it could be a teacher monitoring the cafeteria, or someone who is hired just to oversee the cafeteria, or a parent volunteer.

        • Jerry

          What difference at this point does it make to an admitted atheist. This is yoBamas way. Aren’t you proud?

          • Eric G

            EliseR has of late (and I’m being kind) to grasping at straws so far at the bottom of the box that she may be getting paper cuts from the container. I’m surprised she didn’t take the 5 year old to task for bad grammar.

          • Jerry

            All the pinks are starting to act desperate. They seem to be sensing their demise thanks to yoBamaCare.

          • cazie

            The influence of satan’s demons, which they’ve invited in, could also be sensing their time is short before the return of Jesus.

          • Tony Marcus

            Yes, dear….you just sit here, and the men in white coats will be here soon to help.

          • Steve Harmon

            Really? So, unless I don’t get what you’re saying, religious belief = lunacy? Or did I not understand your post, Tony.

          • Tony Marcus

            You did not understand my post. Religious belief is faith. Belief that anything that contradicts your religious belief is satanic is insanity.

          • LittleRoot_48

            Religious belief IS faith and includes the belief that Satan and his minions are at work on earth trying to lead God’s people away from him.

          • Tony Marcus

            Belief is a fine line to walk. All believers, of WHATEVER religion, are convinced that theirs is the true faith. Here in the US, we rightfully condemn the actions of zealots of Islam, who would sacrifice innocents in the name of their God. Let’s not emulate them by wishing death and destruction on believers of other faiths or non-believers. Those who truly embody the spirit of Jesus realize that calling proponents of other religions “allies of Satan” are hateful fools. Do you truly want, in this age of weapons that can destroy the earth, a fight to the death over whose God is the stronger one? I know there are some out there who yearn for Armageddon. If you are among those, I pity your shortsightedness. How many billions of people are you willing to sacrifice to your Moloch in the belief that it will ensure your place in Heaven?

          • Rose

            I don’t see anyone here wishing death and destruction on anyone of other faiths. Just because we believe there is a spiritual war going on to stamp out Christianity, doesn’t mean we want people to die. On the contrary, we want them to get saved.

          • Tony Marcus

            Rose, I quote from another poster on this page: “it is quite clear that you number among God’s non-elect, His spiritual
            goats, created by God for your day of destruction in 2 1/2 short years.
            Dwell on that truth for a moment…”
            If that isn’t wishing death and destruction on others, I don’t really know what is. Certainly not everyone posting here is a vile animal like the person who wrote the above, but there does seem to be a tendency to view the dominant religious viewpoint in the country (by far) as being victims because their faith isn’t enshrined in the state itself. That is how the founding fathers designed this nation, perhaps because they knew from personal experience how sectarian differences can lead to bitterness and persecution.

          • Rose

            Tony, I did not see the bone-head post that you quoted. But also, my study of history reveals a deeply religious faith by many of our founding fathers. I believe that’s why God is declared as the One Who gives us our rights and freedoms. That’s also why freedom of religion is the first amendment. They felt it was the most important. I so appreciate your civility in this discussion.

          • Tony Marcus

            A good many of the founding fathers were Deists. They were also smart enough to NOT want to enshrine a state religion. Freedom of religion was very important to the colonists, in that many of them had fled religious persecution in the lands of their birth. Some of them embraced no religion whatsoever, which didn’t stop them from wanting all to be free to practice their own faith. It’s the idea of Christianity enjoying special treatment by our elected and appointed officials that was endemic and seems to be painful for some Christians to feel deprived of, but it IS the true American way. I also appreciate your keeping this discussion on a polite plane. Thanks very much.

          • Thomas Doscher

            Deists don’t mention the name of Jesus constantly as the founding fathers did. It’s an urban legend that they were deists, since people know if you repeat a lie over 5 times, people start believing it.

          • Tony Marcus

            Hmm….So, it’s possible that historians have been wrong about them all these years. What is your source for insisting otherwise?

          • Katherine

            DEists did not believe in Jesus. If there is a God it is nature.

          • Richard

            And how did nature come to be nature? Just randomly became nature? Big Bang? So how did the materials needed to cause a Big Bang come into existence? Nature?

            The thing is this you can’t answer that question while Christians can. You live a life of fatalism, we are born, live and die for no purpose. What a depressing life you want all of us to lead!

          • angelccorr

            Thomas, you are right. They were not deists. It’s just a phony argument by atheists and everybody knows it.

          • pat ange

            Amazing how they think they can rewrite history. Why don’t they just get in their time machine & go back and tell this junk to our founding fathers. They live in a fantasy world and don’t know fact from fiction.

          • Rose

            You are right. It’s amazing how they are changing history. It will be even worse now with Common Core.

          • Katherine

            A belief in deism is an acknowledgment of the natural world in which nature is the creator. If there is a God, it is the goddess nature not some imaginary Christian, Jewish, or Islam God of which there is zero proof. Nature is all around us and it creates. Therefore if there is a God then it is nature. Deism is common sense, it can be seen felt touched and observed. Christianity and all the other silly religions have nothing but imaginary superstitions and delusions.

          • Tony Marcus

            Katherine, pretty much all adherents of religion feel that THEIR belief is the only one that’s “common sense”. I have no need to put down anyone’s faith. It’s only when they insist that it is somehow special and needs preferential treatment that my hackles go up. Through history, there have been plenty of atrocities committed by those who believe in all major religions. There have also been wonderful acts of charity and forgiveness by believers in pretty much all religions.

            I think the road to peace is through acceptance of difference, not exclusion. My own spirituality is my own business. I don’t need anyone’s permission or license to believe or not believe. Nor should this little girl. My only question is why her parents posted this video here rather than doing the rational thing and going to the school, complaining about what happened and making sure that the employee was cautioned to never do such a thing again. Perhaps the answer is that they’re more interested in making some political point than actually seeking justice. It’s also possible that the child was coached into saying this for that same reason, and that there IS no basis for their claim…the simple fact that it’s posted here does give rise to that question.

          • pat ange

            How do you know that they did not go to the school & complain about what happened? Have you been with them all this time? They posted this because people need to know that these things happen.

          • Tony Marcus

            pat ange, this is allegedly a news story, so one would assume that, had there been a confrontation at the school, it would have been reported. That’s what news sites are supposed to do: report what happened. There is no mention of any resolution in the story. Tell me why you think “people need to know that these things happen”. Is it so that the purported actions of ONE school employee (and presumably a low level one) can anger all self-righteous Christians everywhere? This is the sort of attitude that breeds hate. My impression of the Jesus of the Bible is that he was not a hater…perhaps you’d like to correct me on that.

          • pat ange

            What you THINK happened has nothing to do with it. This is Christian discrimination; a real problem in this country now, that is why it needs to be reported. Why does racial discrimination ( much of it fake) need to be reported? I am sure you are a real Bible schloar. Just love it when atheist misquote the Bible. Why do you think that Christians have no right to stand up for God & their beliefs? Atheist are sad little people to me. They are on a dead end road to hell. This is not hate or wishing you to hell. This is simply God’s law. If you choose to deny God’s law; that is on you and no one else. Don’t call me a hater because I love Christ and believe his laws. IF I’M WRONG: I LOSE NOTHING. IF YOU ARE WRONG YOU LOSE EVERYTHING. God Bless.

          • Tony Marcus

            That was a very interesting jumble of non-information you just posted, pat ange. First, you have ZERO information that whoever the employee was who did this (assuming it happened) wouldn’t have done exactly the same no matter what religion was in question. Second, while I never claimed to be a Biblical scholar, I’ve certainly read the New Testament. Are you suggesting that I’m wrong in describing Jesus as a messenger of love? Next, I’m not an atheist, though it’s actually none of your business what my beliefs are. I’m sorry that you are so hemmed in by the smallness of your faith that you feel in such danger.

          • pat ange

            You are a sad little person. I am judged only by my God. You are the one trying to judge the faith of others.. If it barks like a dog………… You really come on as an Atheist, sorry if I misjudged you, that is God’s job. He is the God of love & forgiveness. I wish you peace & hope.

          • Tony Marcus

            And I wish you the understanding that you sadly lack.

          • pat ange

            FACT:..If I’m wrong; I lose nothing. If you are wrong; you lose everything.

          • Tony Marcus

            Just consider…what if you’re wrong and Islam is right? Then you’re really screwed. Personally, I’d rather behave well because it’s the right thing to do, not in order to be rewarded in Heaven.

          • pat ange

            To each his own. The Bible says all of Islam will be destroyed. I believe God. I have no worry, I lose nothing.

          • Tony Marcus

            That’s amazing! The Bible says Islan will be destroyed, despite the fact that when the Bible was written there WAS NO SUCH THING as Islam. Perhaps you need to go read it again.

          • pat ange

            There was no such thing as Iran either, but there was Persia. Do you get it, or is it over your head. Names changed, but the places & people still exist.

          • Tony Marcus

            Sorry to burst your balloon, but Islam is a religion, not a place or a people, and didn’t come into being until the seventh century AD. Admit it, you’re not only a bigot, but you’re ignorant as well.

          • pat ange

            Sorry , but you are just plain stupid. What is now called islam is the religion of a group of people, without people, there is no religion. These are all desendants of arabic people, who worship Allah. Mohammad is their prophet, he did not start their religion. All of these muslim countries and people are in the bible, the names have been changed, but this is the same earth. You don’t know what you are talking about.

          • Tony Marcus

            You’re just further exposing your ignorance. Do you know what country has the largest Islamic population? That would be Indonesia, which is not Arabic in the slightest. Followers of Islam consider the Bible as part of their heritage. There was no Islam until Muhammad. You need to read a lot more and talk a lot less. My heritage is Jewish, not that it’s any of your business.

          • pat ange

            You don’t know what you are talking about. Of course you think you can change American history so why not change the histiry of the Bible.I have read the Bible & the Quran. And you know nothing. There are Islamics all over the world, but they had roots. Well if you are Jewish, you must know that several countries will attack Israel and the Bible says they will all die. So many it will take 7 months to bury them, then skeletons will be found after the 7 months. It names each country by the names they had in the old testiment. So you are saying there was not a god called Allah before Mohammad, who made mohammad the profit of Islam?..

          • Tony Marcus

            Allah is just “God” in Arabic. If you wish for form your twisted world view on a misreading of the Bible, you’re welcome to. Just don’t expect to be taken seriously by people who actually think.

          • pat ange

            You are such a fool. Why don’t you just shut up & go away. Your stupidity is overwhelming. This is my last correspondence with you. Any reply will be ignored & unread. None so blind as those who will not see. So long.

          • Tony Marcus

            Buh byee!!!

          • Jerry H.

            Pascal’s Wager; have you heard of it?

          • pat ange

            Sure, does it mean anything to me; No. The Bible is all the proof I need. It has been proven right by many who were trying to disprove it’s Legitimacy. I don’t try to force my beliefs on anyone. but I defy the government or anyone else to prevent me from worshiping as I please. I have NO DOUBT about God & his teachings.& am very secure with that. How anybody else feels is up to them & tho I may not believe as they do. I respect their rights. I just think it is sad when the few try to destroy the beliefs of others. As I said, I have nothing to lose, & I’m secure with that. All the “theories” in the world will not change my mind. God Bless!

          • Monika Woods

            Nature is a creation, not a creator. You should not attack what you do not believe.

          • pat ange

            AMEN

          • Richard

            HAHA! So Monika.. you made it back to nature, but who created nature? You aren’t thinking backwards far enough, there is only so far anyone can go until the question still arises.. how did that get here? The only answer is a creator of some sort.

          • Richard

            The Bible contains thousands of facts. You are simply too blinded to see it. You have to understand that you CAN take the Bible and a secular historical time line and they line up beautifully. Pharoah’s that were said to exist.. are found in secular history, wars that are said to have happened are found in secular history, cities that are said to have existed… yeah, they are right there on the map of the secular world, although sometimes they are ruins or buried under time.

            Heck, even Moses crossing of the Red Sea has plenty of evidence supporting that it happened! Maybe the miracle of the water being spread can’t be proven, but the crossing itself IS proven. I guess that Bible isn’t all fiction eh?

            So how am I supposed to believe any of your facts considering you haven’t got any? You are close minded. Because you don’t believe, anyone who does must be some sort of lunatic. It is people like you that make this world the disgusting mess it is today.

          • pat ange

            The Future is shown in the Bible just as history is shown. I am so glad that I won’t be here to witness the end. How awsome that God will spare Christians from the horrors to come. So sad fro those who don’t believe.

          • Rose

            Katherine, it takes more faith to believe that nature created itself, than to believe in an all powerful God Who is the Creator. Your theory makes no sense to me.

          • Brian Robinson

            You are a sad woman!

          • George

            Tony, that remark re: Deists has been made many times but it has as many detractors as supporters. Using it in your post IMO actually lessens the post’s strength.
            With reference to the colonists that came because of religious persecution, some states that became part of the United States of America (U.S.) had state religions according to many early reports. The U.S. was founded as a Christian Nation and was so stated by government leaders and the U.S. Supreme court Chief Justice until the late 1800′s and early 1900′s. It has only been in the last 100 years the claim that the U.S. is NOT a Christian has been made. I am not saying the Christian religion should be the only one, but neither should history be revised.

          • Tony Marcus

            “Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”

            ~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, , February 10, 1814,

            “When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and
            when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support
            it so that its professors are obligated to call for help of the civil
            power, it’s a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”

            ~Founding Father Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

            “The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”

            ~Founding Father James Madison, 1819

            “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past
            one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in
            greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

            ~Founding Father James Madison, July 10, 1822

            “Knowledge and liberty are so prevalent in this country, that I do not
            believe that the United States would ever be disposed to establish one
            religious sect, and lay all others under legal disabilities. But as we
            know not what may take place hereafter, and any such test would be
            exceedingly injurious to the rights of free citizens, I cannot think it
            altogether superfluous to have added a clause, which secures us from the
            possibility of such oppression.”

            ~Founding Father Oliver Wolcott, Connecticut Ratifying Convention, 9 January 1788

            “Persecution is not an original feature in any religion; but it is
            always the strongly marked feature of all religions established by law.
            Take away the law-establishment, and every religion re-assumes its
            original benignity.”

            ~Thomas Paine, The Rights of Man, 1791

            “God has appointed two kinds of government in the world, which are
            distinct in their nature, and ought never to be confounded together; one
            of which is called civil, the other ecclesiastical government.”

            ~Founding Father Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773

          • Rose

            James Madison was a devout Bible scholar and the Father of our Constitution. His Christian principles had a great influence. A quote by Ronald Reagan: The 1st Amendment was not written to protect people and their laws from religious values. It was written to protect those values from government tyranny.

          • Tony Marcus

            Madison was an Episcopalian, but was still absolutely committed to a full separation of church and state. Ronald Reagan was nominally a Presbyterian, but was, as best I can discover, mostly a church goer because it was expected of politicians. Whoever actually wrote the speech that you quote may well have not been religious in the slightest. It’s the sort of one liner that his writers loved to give him, as he could give them a pithy delivery and they played well the his constituency.

          • Rose

            Peggy Noonan was Reagan’s speech writer and she has said that much of what he has said were his own words.

          • Tony Marcus

            I quote from discoverynews.org:

            ” speechwriters of Ronald Reagan are a special case. Tony Dolan, who has an historically significant article in this morning’s Wall Street Journal
            about the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, ran a
            presidential speech writers staff that was famous in its day and
            deserves to be called great by any measure. Almost all the team members were fiercely loyal to the President,
            self-effacing, truly smart, able craftsmen and serious in-house
            diplomats. A group of them went off to found the White House Writers
            Group (Clark Judge, Josh Gilder, et al.) Novelist and Hoover
            Institution fellow Peter Robinson has helped lead a revolution among
            Dartmouth alumni. Several others have written well-received books,
            including, of course, Peggy Noonan.”

            Noonan was certainly the best known of these, but hardly the only one. Reagan was a charming guy, but not a writer, nor exactly a deep thinker. He pretty much phoned in the presidency, much as George W. Bush did later (and his father did not). Reagan was a fine mouthpiece for the neo-cons, and his administration set the ball rolling for the incredibly huge deficit that this country now labors under, as well as the loss of millions of middle class jobs.

          • Rose

            When Reagan took office, this country was in shambles from Jimmy Carter. Our military was in shambles and shrinking (kind of like what Obama is doing), interest rates for houses were 20% and higher. Reagan believed in a strong defense and took much ridicule from the left when he wanted a missile defense system built. All five of us kids (in my family) were able to buy homes during Reagan’s terms. He united Americans, not pitted one against another. He did a great job as governor of California, and I believe he was one of our greatest presidents.

          • Tony Marcus

            So, an expanded military, the “star wars” defense (which even the military realized would be totally ineffective), etc. Add on to his massive federal spending his tax cuts for the rich, and you have the basis for the huge national debt we’re now saddled with. Jimmy Carter, while a very good man, was not the greatest president we’ve ever had. Reagan, however, was pretty close to the worst in my opinion. He oversaw the birth of the hostile corporate takeover, which bled companies dry and then discarded their worthless husks, while enriching a tiny already wealthy minority of the populace. He helped kill off the unions (remember the air traffic controllers?), and guess what, the middle class has disappeared along with them.

          • Rose

            Reagan had tax cuts across the board, not just for the rich. I was proud of him when he fired the air traffic controllers for striking. He made a stronger middle class than the democrats have done. The dems take from the rich to make more of the poor. Who in the military was against the missile defense system? I know the liberal media was. That seems to be where you get your info. I’m not trying to insult you, but you state what they wanted people to believe.

          • pat ange

            no need to try to convience a left-wing atheist of anything. They make up their “facts” as they go. Whatever fits their agenda becomes their “facts” They refuse to believe in hell; untill the flames lap at their body. Oops, to late then.

          • pat ange

            They also deny that God exist. You can talk to them till they die. They will only believe when the fires of hell engulf them. Then they will have an eternity of proof.

          • Guest

            The idea that the United States has always been
            a bastion of religious freedom is reassuring—and utterly at odds with the
            historical record. The earliest Europeans
            in America used religion as a cudgel to discriminate, suppress and even kill the foreign, the “heretic” and the
            “unbeliever”—including the “heathen” natives already here. While it is true
            that the vast majority of early-generation Americans were Christian, they
            battled between various Protestant sects and, even more so, between Protestants
            and Catholics. Everyone wanted freedom
            to practice their own religion while still denying that right to others
            believing differently.

            Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/#A9uO0KJt8EXvBA7X.99

            The
            idea that the United States has always been a bastion of religious
            freedom is reassuring—and utterly at odds with the historical record

            Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/#A9uO0KJt8EXvBA7X.99
            Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
            Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter
            The
            idea that the United States has always been a bastion of religious
            freedom is reassuring—and utterly at odds with the historical record

            Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/americas-true-history-of-religious-tolerance-61312684/#A9uO0KJt8EXvBA7X.99
            Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
            Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

          • Tony Marcus

            I certainly never indicated that there wasn’t religious intolerance in the American colonies. Many persecuted groups who emigrated here were only too happy to then persecute those whose God differed somehow from theirs. Rather than undercutting what I said, these facts actually reinforce my arguments: in general, the founders of this nation were NOT particularly religious (some not at all), and were certainly not zealots. They wanted to enshrine the right to worship as one wished with no state religion setting the standard for what was acceptable.

          • pat ange

            Non factual articles are simply the opinion of the writer and mean nothing. You think you can change history by making up lies. It don’t work that way. You are very misinformed. Maybe you can find a time machine & go back & change everything. That’s your only hope. but I wouldn’t bank on it. Enjoy your delusions.

          • Katherine

            You are delusional. United States founders removed all religious laws in the defianc of the church and the Bibles admonitions to obey God’s laws. God’s laws included killing people who were either nonbelievers or different believers. The founders of the United States in defiance of the Bible also refused to obey kings as described and commanded in the letters of Paul. Everything about the United States is founded on atheism.

          • Monika Woods

            God’s laws DO NOT condone killing. You are confusing the “time of man” with what is supposed to be done. The bible that those that follow Christ read has 3 epochs. 1) the time of God’s rule, perfection. 2) The time of man’s rule and attempt to be perfect (impossible) 3)The time of redemption and acknowledgment that no human will ever be capable of perfection.

            Jesus said “I am the way the truth and the light, no man/(woman) comes to the father except through me.”

            He also said that the 2 greatest laws are love God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor the way God loves you.

            No room for murder.

          • Richard

            Now there, you prove you don’t know what you are talking about again. The founders built this country around Biblical principles. They did not remove all religious laws in defiance of the church.. there were defying the monarchy. The founders simply realized that you cannot force a person to believe something because that would remove free will.. the free will that God wishes all his children to have in returning to him.

          • pat ange

            Now we have a Big Government who want’s to force us to accept it as our God. Atheist love anything that will help them deny God’s exsistance. Don’t you just love how they try to twist the meanings of the bible.& try to make God & Christians haters and evil. Sad their distorted thinking.

          • George

            Washington’s letter to the Touro Synagogue (1790) promises full citizenship for them in this Christian nation. Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli that stated the government of the United States was not founded on the Christian religion. Seems this argument has been going on for a long time.
            There are numerous pros and cons but it was Hugo Black’s forwarding the ACLU’s suggested response in 1947 in Everson vs. Board of Education that was the game changer. Without any previous case to refer to, Black came up with the now infamous “separation of church and state.” The historical basis of the First Amendment was to protect the church from an overbearing government and the people from having to accept a federal church or else. How that was turned 180 degrees has never been explained.
            The only thing I would say is that morality has been on a steady decline since that 1947 decision.

          • Richard

            Jefferson specifically said that there should be no legislation compelling citizens to follow a specific religion thus creating a wall between the church and the state.

            This had nothing to do with making it illegal to worship in the open in state-run institutions. It was simply as stated, a way to ensure that the government could not FORCE people to worship any religion and be punished if they did not. So how is a little girl praying at lunch FORCING anyway to worship God? How is teaching about the Bible FORCING anyone to worship God?

            Only the opposite is true.. a huge taboo has now been formed regarding religion scaring many people away from considering even LOOKING at the Bible for fear of ridicule.

          • pat ange

            And morality has decreased by mega leaps & bounds in the past 5years. Sad the way the world sees America now…So glad that God will punish those responsible for this destruction. Government has no business trying to govern God’s business.

          • pat ange

            Just where in the Bible does God tell anyone to kill nonbelivers or diffrent belivers? Book, chapter, verse please. The Islamic Muslims believe that; not Christains. You think you can rewrite history and falsify records? The history of the bible has been proven over & over for thousands of years. Even so, there is one major fact you can’t denie;………IF CHRISTIANS ARE WRONG, THEY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE. IF ATHEIST ARE WRONG, THEY HAVE EVERYTHING TO LOSE. HEAVEN/HELL..I’LL GO WITH GOD.

          • Laura J. McDermott

            Quite a few references to this in the old testament actually. The last verse has particular ramifications…
            Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

            You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

            If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives. (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

            A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

            If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

            A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

            Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

            They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

            Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

            If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

            Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

            Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

          • pat ange

            The old testiment is history. Christains live by the teachings of Jesus. The New Testiment is the present & future. Jesus died for our sins, we are forgiven by repenting and accepting Christ. Everyday sins are forgiven tru Christ’s death. Man makes laws of the land, people are exicuted for crimes like murder, according to man’s laws. Christians do not kill nonbelivers or belivers of other religions. That is what the muslims believe & pratice. Chrisrians also do not murder unborn babies. If it were not for Christians this country would not been blessed as it was. It is now consumed with corruptness & amorality as Christianity is being outlawed by a vile distructive government supported by Atheist, muslims, & such. God warns; man does not heed his warnings. There will be much pain & desastrous consequences on earth if morality continues to decline. Man has no one but himself to blame. Your choice; forgiviness or suffering in sin.

          • pat ange

            Atheism is founded on LIES. Your NON-facts are all lies. Maybe you & tony will be roomies in eternity. That will give you plenty of time to figure out where you went wrong. Sadly, You will get the right idea when you arrive at your new permanate address. I pray for you both.

          • Rose

            I’m afraid you are learning the propagandized history. We have a deeply religious founding and that’s why God has blessed us so abundantly. The Bible teaches to love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. James Madison, a devout Bible scholar was the Father of our Constitution. To this day they still open the Senate with prayer. The 10 Commandments are posted at the Supreme Court. There are many proofs of our religious heritage. How about the Preamble to our Declaration of Independence. “That they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable rights….”

          • Rose

            So is that why they always opened the Senate with prayer? Is that why the 10 Commandments are inscribed at the Supreme Court. You are sadly mistaken. Also, the early founders didn’t obey the king because the Bible commands to obey God rather than men (when men defy the laws of God), just as Peter and the other apostles did in Acts 5:29.

          • Katherine

            The religious and especially Christians and Islam do not care about truth, or facts, or evidence, or even correcting their ignorant backwards myths. All they care about is that they appear superior to everyone. Christians are essentially racists.

          • Monika Woods

            I am sorry that you have met people that want to be superior. We are not supposed to be. We are called to serve and love. We remain human though, faulty, and prone to hurt others.

          • pat ange

            Some people see exactly what they want to see; without regard for the truth.

          • Richard

            And stereotyping all people based on a title is so enlightened I suppose.

          • pat ange

            Chtistians and Islam are total OPPOSITES. This country would not have become the greatest country in the world if it had not been founded on God. I was born & raised in one of the 13 colonies and have visited the others for years. I know the history of my country. You do not. Amoral beliefs of Atheist & liberals are ruining this country. God continues to warn you, and you do not listen. He made this world and he will destroy it when it is taken over by corruptness, this is now happening. If you do not confess your sins & accept God; you will go to hell. God’s laws will be obeyed, it is that simple. If I’m wrong, I lose nothing. If you are wrong, you lose everything. God bless.

          • pat ange

            You are a delusional Atheist who spouts total lies as facts. Sad that you feel so INFERIOR that you blame that on Christians. You are responsible for yourself; stop blaming your shortcomings on others. We are all free to believe what we wish; yet you try to force your disbelief on others. The Bible preceeded you by thousands of years and has been proven thousands of times & ways, even by those who were trying to Dis-prove it’s legitimacy. You are a sad little person with a disastrous future. I pity you and hope you come to Christ befor it is too late. God Bless.

          • pat ange

            You are the one changing history & telling lies. There are nothing even remotely alike about Christians and Islam. You are simply STUPID. The democratic party founded Racism in America. I’m Sure you are one of them. Do you also belong to the KKK: also a democratic organization. Just because you babble on about something, does not make it true. This country was founded on God, that is why it became the greatest country in the world. It is now infested with atheist ,islam, homosexuals, baby murders, God haters,the most vile corrupt government in our history and people like you. That is why our country has the problems we have now. Without God, things will continue to get worse. Thank YOU.

          • Katherine

            And if we are not saved and believe in your ignorant, backward, superstitious, imaginary version of God? Then we all go to hell to suffer forever. How nice of you. Where is he’ll? If you are going to threaten us with hell at least you should know where it is? And no it is not in the center of the earth. Anyone who believes this kind of your rational idiocy is insane.

          • Monika Woods

            We have 2 simple choices. Life with God, life without God. Light or darkness. It seems incredulous, I know, I struggled with this myself. You don’t have to believe what I tell you, but please believe I wish no harm to you Katherine. I hope you have enough in life, and have joy. I hope people that attack you for your beliefs will choose to love you regardless of your beliefs. I hope that for all of us.

            As a road traveled, I hope we can all walk together in love regardless of the road traveled. I will choose to walk toward the God of my salvation, and I hope many will choose this walk, and not twist the true words of the creator.

          • Richard

            Haha Katherine, Satan has you so blinded with hate, so low in the world, that you feel you must drag a set of people who are trying to live better lives down with you. You do realize that there are millions of people FAR more intelligent than you who believe. Many of these people were just like you before they actually studied the Bible, but changed their minds when the Bible actually mirrored actual REAL world information.
            Maybe if you actually studied the Bible with an open mind instead of with hatred lenses you would change your mind.

            Besides all this, the Bible predicted 2000 years ago things that are happening RIGHT NOW in the real world. Mythology? Maybe I could believe that if the Bible only spoke about ancient times, but it also speaks accurately about the future.

            Hell is being without God. Each person was created with a place for God in them, but many strive to fill that place with money, or drugs, or sex, or other addictions, none of which are capable of filling such a large void. When you finally give in to God you feel peace because you no longer have to SEEK to fill that emptiness.

          • pat ange

            You are 100% right. Christians don’t tell God what to do. His laws will be enforced. Each of us chooses his own destiny according to Gods laws. Don’t blame me if you choose to deny God & go to hell.

          • Monika Woods

            Tony, you make a very good point. We need to overcome culture, not become just like them. We are called to share love, truth and light. Not to attack, destroy and create more darkness.

          • pat ange

            you don’t have a clue!

          • teila

            … and any number of people with different beliefs might believe to the contrary, which is why schools, the military, and public places should be devoid of “faith” based trappings. Believe as you wish, but check your belief(s) at the door when you come to school or work and focus on math, science, & writing, or whatever your job requires.

          • Rose

            No, Teila. We Christians refuse to bow to a humanistic religion commanding us to hide ours.

          • Katherine

            Humanism says that you are thinking functioning intelligent human being who makes decisions all the time. You however, are an ignorant silly superstitious religionist who states that there is an imaginary God who pulls your strings like you are a puppet or slave.

          • Rose

            God does not “pull my strings.” He has given me a free will. I didn’t always believe in Him, but now that my eyes are open, it amazes me that anyone could refuse to believe and follow Him. So, do you think that some slime crawled out of the water (of course we don’t know where the slime came from) and evolved into thousands of different species? And the male and female of each specie would have to evolve at the same time; and they would have to know how to reproduce. Seriously?? When I nursed my babies, I was awestruck at the wonderful design of our Creator. I hope you will see the beautiful design in our creation (every cell is like a city), and see the Great Designer Who made it all.

          • Katherine

            Please, don’t hide your religion. The more you show the world how ignorant, silly and myth driven you are the more there is proof you are an insane bunch of silly Christians and Muslims. Because you are insane atheism is growing, and we thank you. Keep it up.

          • Monika Woods

            If religion is a myth, that would make you an authority. If you are an authority, who gave you that authority? Why is it okay for you to tell people what to do? Are you superior?

          • Richard

            Hatred is unbecoming Katherine. Your argument is juvenile.. “Believe what I believe or I’ll call you names!”

          • Richard

            And you, Katherine, would be the first to tell Christians to stop pushing their beliefs on you… but here you are telling us if we don’t believe like you we are insane, and ignorant. Hypocrite!

          • pat ange

            Enjoy hell

          • teila

            Incorrect. First of all, you do not speak for all Christians. Lastly, when it comes to bringing your religion (whatever it may be) into public schools, offices, etc., then yes, you will “bow” to whatever the courts mandate.

            If the court mandates that you cannot put a Christmas tree in front of the courthouse, or public offices, then you will not, or you face the consequences to include legal termination.

            Now what you do at a private business, or your own home is totally your business, and if you want to worship the Lord or a golden goat, or earth, wind and fire, then that’s your business, but it (anyone’s religion) should not be displayed in a public office/school.

            Once off school/public office property, you can display your personal religion proudly ’till the cows come home and no one will care.

          • tom2

            When you say “check your belief(s)” I’m sure you’d include burqas, abayas, hijabs, turbans, kaftans, yarmulkes and all the assortments of religious and cultural symbols of private preferences. Check the korans and outlaw payos, forbid prayer times and after school, on-campus activities. At the end, you’ll have the planned product of a government school, you know, the one desired by the government.

          • Tony Marcus

            Tom2, All citizens are free to instruct their children in whatever religious practice they choose, and there’s no reason not to continue to do so. I can see no reason to forbid the wearing of crosses, yarmulkes, turbans, whatever unless they cause unrest in schools (I live in a town where there had been gang activity, so that school uniforms were mandated for some years…this pretty much stopped the fights that had been caused by wearing gang colors on campus). There’s no legal reason why (if the length of the school day allowed for it) there couldn’t be a period devoted to whatever practice a student desired, whether it be private prayer, math homework, playing chess or anything. It’s requiring students to be either active or passive participants in a sectarian religious activity that is and should be forbidden.

          • Richard

            You have to ask yourself exactly what is it that makes people hate Biblical principles so much. Have you never read the New Testament? I tell you what Tony, I was an agnostic through high school and college. I was the guy that spewed out the 5 or 6 arguments against the Bible that all uninformed people who are “experts” on the subject but who have never actually read the Bible spew. I was still wise enough to realize that our society would be a TON better if people would all follow the messages that Jesus gave in the Bible.

          • Tony Marcus

            I agree that following Jesus teachings would make for a much better world, whether one is a Christian or not. Why on earth would you think that I didn’t feel that way? There are also teachings of other religions that have a lot of wisdom in them. All I’m arguing against is the unlawful UNCONSTITUTIONAL enshrinement of one religion by the state. Incidentally, if you read elsewhere on this page, you’ll find plenty of so called Christians who seem stuck on revering the most narrow minded passages of the Old Testament, and ignoring Jesus’ message of tolerance and forgiveness.

          • Katherine

            Jesus did not exist. There are also a huge number of conflicts about what Jesus said. Jesus is a 4th-century myth, in which there were many authors who created the mythical Jesus. Jesus was not the peaceloving religious leader you project. He also said many violent, and hateful things such as he came to separate children from their parents

          • Monika Woods

            You seem to have it all figured out. Why waste your time with us? Does it make you feel better to tear us down, or do you feel a personal calling to destroy the beliefs of others?

          • Richard

            Don’t throw pearls before swine. The Bible tells us this because there are people who will never accept the good news because Satan has blinded them and closed their minds to the possibility of faith. The pigs will only get frustrated and angry, and the person who threw the pearls will continue to get discouraged.

          • Richard

            LOL You have obviously never read the Bible, so please don’t make statements as though you are some expert on the subject. I am willing to bet the only things you know to say about Christians are those things that your hateful friends have previously spewed out. You aren’t even smart enough to come up with original ideas, or REAL facts regarding Jesus. There were many historical works that mentioned Jesus as a real person. Many of the Historical figures in the Bible can be found in our history books. Archaeologist GO TO THE BIBLE if they want to find a certain ancient city because the Bible is accurate.

            Does this prove that the entire Bible is absolute truth? No, but there is enough fact in the Bible that it is easy for an intelligent person to come to decision to have faith that the stuff that can’t be proven is also true!

          • George

            References please.

          • Katherine

            No you silly religious twits, you are American citizens. As an American citizen you’ll obey the laws of the United States. The laws of the United States are designed to protect individuals from people like you who believe you have a right according to your Bible or Koran or other silly myths to kill torture and enslave people who don’t believe in your silly and backward religions. If you don’t like the United States get out, and go create a country of your choosing.

          • Tony Marcus

            Well Katherine, you’re a good example that one needn’t be a disciple of a particular religion to be an intolerant bigot. You seem to have chosen to be a true believer in non-religion. Now, there are wonderful arguments to be made for the lack of a creator. To assert that you KNOW the truth of the matter is every bit as shallow as those who are certain that the earth is 6000 years old, because the Bible says so.

          • Richard

            Christians in history who have killed, tortured or enslaved were human beings who were wrong to do so. Just because you are a Christian doesn’t make you perfect as God.

            Also, Christians who misinterpret or perform acts that aren’t in accordance with the Bible are wrong, but that doesn’t make the Bible wrong… in the same way that a person who spells a word wrong doesn’t make the dictionary wrong.

          • tom2

            I must not have made myself clear enough because I agree with you completely. Sometimes my sarcasm masks my meaning. I also believe parents should receive a voucher for the per-student amount allotted for public education. And they should be permitted to use it in the school of their choice. Forcing students to attend a school chosen by the government is an invitation to abuse and indoctrination. And BTW, I’m not a religious person but respect those who are.

          • teila

            I think if the school policy says “no hats” then no, you can’t wear head dress no matter what your religion is- if you have a problem with it, then homeschool your kid or send him/her to private school.

            No public place should take religion (of any kind) into consideration. Want a U.S. driver’s license? Then you should be forced to wear clothing that makes you easily identifiable on your driver’s license photo. I couldn’t care less what your personal religion is. Want the license, show your darn face, etc., like everyone else.

            Can’t eat the typical food in the military? Then don’t join the U.S. Military! All this extra consideration for religion has gotten nuts… The U.S. Government should tell Hobby Lobby where to stick their crazy idea that they should have special consideration based on religion… (chuckle) Hobby Lobby is lucky I’m not at the helm of that hearing.

            Want to bring a bible/koran/etc., to work? As long as books are allowed in that particular work place, who cares what you’re reading? … but don’t stand up and pray a christian, muslim, hindu, etc., prayer at a mandated work meeting. Stick to the talking points, let everyone go home, then pray on your own time.

            Want to bow your head and pray silently at work? Knock yourself out! Want to hold hands with your co-workers and pray on your lunch break? That’s ok too! … but don’t put a Christmas tree in the hallway of a government bldg., if Becky can’t put a golden calf or pentagram up in the same fashion.

            As long as the “religious” clothing matches the overall dress code and no concessions are made for “religious” clothing (of any kind) then that’s fine. What isn’t fine is if Tammy can’t wear a plus size mu mu to work, but Ghaniyah can wear a burka.

          • tom2

            I agree it’s their school and they get to make the rules. Would you also offer students and parents the freedom to take their tuition money and find different schools?

          • teila

            I assume you mean take allotted tuition money (government money) and have the freedom to spend it at a private school or a school in or out of the kid’s respective district?

            If the receiving school doesn’t mind. I don’t mind… however, I also think if the government is the one paying, then the government has a say-so. If you don’t accept gov. funds, then I fully believe you should be able to go to whatever school that tickles your knee-caps.

            You have to be more specific.

          • tom2

            Did you know public school tuition originates from individuals who earn it? Did you know the government takes it by force? Did you know some communities already issue vouchers worth the amount paid to the schools for each student? Did you know those amounts range from about $12,000 to $31,000 annually? Did you know the government has nothing without first taking it from those who earned it? Did you know parents have absolute rights regarding the care and rearing of their children? That said, the government should have no “say-so” regarding education unless the parents permit it? It’s a bad idea for any government to educate its children.

          • Richard

            Separation of church and state had nothing to do with keeping Biblical principles out of schools. It had to do with not allowing a GOVERNMENT to dictate the religion that must be followed. Just by simply saying you can only practice your faith where I say you can makes you wrong.

          • Tony Marcus

            I’m sorry, but I’ll have to disagree with you there. Public schools are government run institutions, and therefore are and should be subject to the same limitations on religious advocacy as other such institutions. Those who choose to have their children attend religious schools are perfectly within their rights (as long as the schools are properly accredited), of course.

          • Katherine

            Christian doctrine is now a doctrine of racism, in which the church, and the silly Bible based on myths is supposed to dominate every American citizens life. If Christians do not like living in a country that is supposed to protect individual rights of belief or nonbelief in any idiotic religion then they need to get out and go and live in some country like Iran where they can dominate human beings lives and choices. Today’s Christians cherry pick their way through the Bible and choose Bible verses to obey that will not get them arrested for murder, torture, and theft. Today’s Christianity is an exercise in blatant hypocrisy and lying.

          • Richard

            Christians are not dominating, they are dominated. Why do you think that the 20 some odd percent of non-Christians get their way more often in this country than the 70 + percent of people that claim to be Christian?

            Check the facts.. the majority of people in our country disagree with people like you Katherine, but in general we aren’t as abrasive to those who don’t agree with us as people like you are TO US!

          • Tony Marcus

            Exactly how long have you suffered from this persecution complex, and have you sought professional help for it yet?

          • Rose

            There is no condoning of racism in the Bible. God hates oppression an so should His followers. Christianity elevates women as God created ALL people in His image. God extends His love to all people. Actually, there are no “races” in the Bible, only groups of people. We all came from Adam and Eve. Isn’t it interesting that now they KNOW that we all came from one blood? Any time “science” contradicts the Bible, the Bible has always been proven right.

          • roadwarrior

            Even if I allow your point to be true, the notion that religion belongs in school is undemocratic. You have your churches and homes and other venue in which you can be as Christian as you want, but making Christianity part of a tax supported institution is just wrong.

          • Richard

            Even if YOU allow my point to be true? Come on man! Who are you? The point IS true regardless of your opinion, and your opinion is likely shared by a minority of people in this country.

            If you think about the religious landscape of the world at the time of the forefather’s lives, you would understand that almost the entire population lived according to a Biblical mindset? Why then would they want to keep such things from the schools? They simply understood that government has no place in FORCING the decision on people, nothing about whether it could be spoken of, or taught in government places. No, the idea that church is taboo in such places is only perhaps 30 or so years old.

          • roadwarrior

            By Fore fathers, if you mean Moses and Abraham…I grant that
            religion was in their wheelhouse. As for
            the Deist, Enlightment influenced founders of this nation….no. When the country was younger, smaller and the
            schools were local and homogeneous in nature, sure, you could get away with
            having religion of the community in school.
            Countries change over time. “the fact that public
            schools are public institutions, and the profound influence of school officials
            and teachers over students. This last point bears special examination. Most
            children view their teachers and other school officials as important authority
            figures. Moreover, children are highly susceptible to coercion, pressure to
            conform both from adults and from their peers”
            I, as an atheist, would never foist my views on students. I have children share with the class that
            they are non-believers and I refrain from stating “hey, me too” as it is
            inappropriate.

            You should be aware, if you are not already. Under God (written by a Socialist minister)
            originally did not contain the words “under god” and “In God We trust” were
            added to the County and the money after the Founders. So, no, I don’t grantyour point.

          • teila

            Actually, it has nothing to do with separation but common sense. You shouldn’t even have the notion that you can get out of class or work 3 times a day, and face the sun and pray… unless you’re at a private school or non-U.S. government job.

            Just like smokers shouldn’t be able to impede on my fresh air in a *public place*, your religion (of any kind) shouldn’t be allowed to be prominently posted in public offices and or school. who cares what you do in a private setting.

            Government should be able to dictate things in it’s offices or institutions of higher learning that receive government money or in churches that receive tax concessions. Don’t want to pay taxes like everyone else, but receive special tax consideration? … then government should have a say-so in your business!

            Now if your business, school, church, enclave, etc., does not receive gov. funds or consideration- then you can do whatever it is you want to do and no one will care. Because then it’s your PRIVATE business.

            Get it? If yes, then great! … if not, then it’s good we have laws being passed anyway for those who can’t seem to digest the difference between your personal (private) business and work or school at a public place.

          • Katherine

            And what is faith? Faith means you are stating something is true without any proof so essentially it is a lie. People who operate on faith, are operating on lies. But keep it up, atheism is growing in huge numbers simply because people of faith are insane liars.

          • RetMedic

            You are absolutely correct in that faith is believing in something you cannot prove. Atheism, by definition, is also a religion because you cannot prove that there is no God. And how you can believe that the basically 2% or 9% (depending on what you wish to consider an atheist) is such a whopping big number to claim that atheism is “growing in huge numbers” is laughable.

          • Richard

            Correct and it is a FAR larger leap of faith to believe that NOTHING created the universe than to believe that Someone did.

            And RetMedic.. you share my opinion, Katherine is just spewing stuff her atheist friends probably told her. She has no facts to back this garbage up!

          • roadwarrior

            And you spew stuff from a collection of books written with no understanding of anything outside of the experience of a group of desert dwelling, Bronze age, shamans.

          • roadwarrior
          • RetMedic

            The simple fact that you found it necessary to respond kind of goes to that fourth definition. What I find so ridiculous in the argument you have attempted to make is that statement that atheists don’t find their identity in being atheists. It’s generally NOT Christians that go around trying to find non Christian monuments to condemn and have removed. But how often do you hear of some atheist organization (that actually sounds like a religious sect doesn’t it) that finds a cross offensive and DEMANDS that it be removed. Like it or not this IS a Christian nation. It was founded by Christians for Christians. We are tolerant enough to understand that others may believe in another God or no God at all. You are more than welcome to participate in this great country. If you examine some of the first laws passed after founding you’d see just how Christian. Congress even published a Bible for schools! Even IF some of the framers were deists, they recognized a Creator as in “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”. The first amendment says NOTHING about separation of church and state. That’s from a letter that Jefferson wrote. If you bother to read anything from the founders you’d see that ALL they were trying to do was prevent a state religion like England’s Church of England. John Adams, 2nd President, and signer to both Declaration and Constitution said of our constitution “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” And though we are a Christian nation we do not have a state church. Christians of today (I’m in no mood to debate the past for which I have no control over) are by far the most tolerant of individuals as a whole. Yes, there are some bad actors out there that are quite frankly idiots. There’s bad folks on any side you look at. But again, it’s not Christians that persecute or make a big deal about a Cross or a Nativity scene. How can something that hurts no one (except some goofy perception maybe) that has been “legal” for over 2 hundred years now all of a sudden be a problem?

          • Richard

            I love my children, and I have faith that they love me. But can that be proven? People love their spouses but can’t prove that their spouses love them.. so this is a lie?

            And I hate to tell you this Katherine, but YOU TOO are an insane liar, you are evil, you are selfish, deceitful and hypocritical just like the rest of us! You are no better than us, just as we are no better than you.

            Christians don’t claim to be perfect, we just believe that we don’t HAVE to be perfect. I can tell you right now, I have NEVER as a Christian sought to destroy another person’s self confidence and self value as I have seen you repeatedly do in your posts here today. Your hatred is all encompassing and I wish you could open your eyes and see just how evil and hurtful you are to a group of people who just want to know where we fit in this universe.

            You are an evil person. How did you get this way? Also, please make sure you don’t just make stuff up. Atheism is not growing in huge numbers. The numbers of non-believers and believers wax and wane over time. I was an atheist until I actually opened my mind and READ the Bible without hate colored lenses.

          • Eric G

            What so many anti-religious people do (and I’m not accusing Tony of being that) is attack faith because there are so many intangible things associated with it. The argument is if it can’t be proven, then it can’t be true. What people overlook is their faith in certain scientific phenomena that are only proven by the acceptance of the words of others. When the science community speaks of things that are unable to be seen but exist because of mathematical equations that “prove it”, is that not faith as well? I am not speaking out against science whatsoever, but if someone is looking for validation and respect, then consistency is the watchword of the day.

          • Steve Harmon

            Ooops, okay, I did not understand, thanks for setting me straight, Tony. Have a great friday. :D

          • Katherine

            Anyone who believes in supernaturalism and religion of any kind especially Christianity, Islam and other silly myths is insane. If anyone of you who is religious can prove one single thing about your myths then we would all believe your myths .But you have no proof, therefore you are in sane.

          • Steve Harmon

            Anyone, such as yourself that doesn’t end a statement, like the one you just made, without a, “IMHO” is insane. My beliefs don’t need your approval to be real to me, IMHO.

          • roadwarrior

            Didn’t Son of Sam say that?

          • Steve Harmon

            Dunno.

          • roadwarrior

            And sadly, as my father always says, opinions are like assholes…everyone’s got one. AND,as Richard Dawkins said, “We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

          • Steve Harmon

            Well, apparently, daddy and Dicky are good enough for you.

          • Monika Woods

            Scientific law: Biogenesis is the production of new living organisms or
            organelles. The law of biogenesis, attributed to Louis Pasteur, is the
            observation that living things come only from other living things, by
            reproduction.

            Which vaccines have you come up with lately?

          • cazie

            Read Revelation Tony…you’re laughing now. In the end times verses it is stated that good will be perceived as bad, and wrong will be thought right. The Lord is my Savior. Man is not my master.

          • Brian Pickell

            The Bible was written by man 300 years after the death of Jesus.

            His point was that All religions on the planet believe that their religion is the right religion. And everyone is willing to die or kill for their God.

            What makes you so sure your religion is the right one? Because your “Bible” says it is? The Quran says Islam is the right religion. Now we have a Paradox now don’t we?

          • Rose

            Your statement is wrong, Brian, about 300 years after the death of Jesus. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, etc. lived during Jesus’ lifetime and wrote most of the New Testament. We who believe the Bible is the Word of God have studied it and drew the most logical conclusion.

          • Katherine

            Wrong again. Matthew Mark Luke and John did not write Matthew Mark Luke and John. None of their relatives, or any of the 50,000 people who allegedly heard Jesus speak has ever written one single document that can be found in its original condition to prove that they knew or saw Jesus or the apostles engaged in Christianity in the first 300 years. Christians are liars and fabricators of a stupid myth.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Actually, most of the new Testament was written by Saul of Tarsus, also called Paul, who never met Jesus and was not one of the 12 Apostles. Though half of his books show later revisions in the version that was eventually included in the original Bible canon at the Council of Nicea in 325ce. Prior to that, there were far more scriptures that were considered sacred by some segment of the church. Not to mention that Martin Luther came along 1200 years later and decided he thought the Old Testament had some books he didn’t like.

          • Richard

            Brian don’t continue spewing that lie out. The Biblical message was written at many different points of Jesus’ ancestry, birth, life, death and beyond. Perhaps the actual collection of gospel messages were put together later, but the messages were written prior.

          • Katherine

            You are correct. There is not one single physical artifact that shows that Christianity or Jesus existed in the first three centuries. Not one there is not one original writing, or statute, or pot shard, or any kind of original documentation to prove again that Christianity and Jesus existed in the first 300 years. The only original document that exists was written in 311 A.D. Christianity was conceived and created by the pagan Emperor Constantine to create a church tax to support the failing woman empire. It’s all about money, and has always been about money.

          • Monika Woods

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epistle_of_Clement Even this predates your fabrication.

          • Monika Woods

            Actually no. The Old testament was written about 2000 years before Christ, and before the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls which were exactly the same as the translated bibles that had been discovered. The New Testament was written within 30-60 years of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

          • roadwarrior

            This seems to be true from the research I have read and learned in college.. Matthew, Mark, and Luke are thought to have come from a document label “Q” by researchers, John, and its contradictions were added later to give fuller biography of Jesus. Moreover, Paul didn’t seem to realize Jesus had lived on earth. Many scriptures were tossed, but truly, there is precious little non-biblical evidence for Jesus (Joshua Ben Joseph)

          • TexasJester

            Which is exactly why I don’t belong to ANY organized religion. I have made my peace with God, and believe in Him and live my life to the best of my ability. I think the Bible is a good book to live by, lots of good lessons. I try to live by the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule.

            I have NOTHING against ANYONE for practicing their religion, as long as the tenets say not to harm others. Based on this, I cannot abide islam — it is a nasty, vicious dictatorial governmental system loosely couched in quasi-religious terms.

            Those living by the true tenets (not just those that go to church on Sunday mornings and Wednesday evenings) of Christianity are good people, and if they want to pray in public, I have no problem. In respect for their beliefs, if I’m in a group that has a prayer, I bow my head.

            If we don’t allow Christianity to flourish, how can I expect to have MY beliefs allowed to flourish? To somewhat paraphrase and partially quote the famous saying,

            “When they came for the Jews, I didn’t speak up.

            “Then they came for ME — and there was no one to speak up for me.”

            God Bless All…

          • Tony Marcus

            There are plenty of elements of fundamentalist Islam that are hateful, this doesn’t mean that Muslims are all hateful by any means. When Christianity was the age that Islam is now, it was directly responsible for many many deaths of innocents whose crime was to believe in the wrong version of Christianity as far as whoever was holding the sword was concerned or of being a heathen (i.e. anyone who believed in a different religion or none at all). You can look at posts on this site be fundamentalist Christians of today that still embody hatred for all those who don’t share their particular version of God. In the US today, to the best of my knowledge there is NO governmental effort to put Christianity at a disadvantage. What there IS is an attempt to remove the illegal and unconstitutional enshrinement of one religion in establishments funded by the government. This is precisely what the founders of this nation would have wanted…it’s the folks who came AFTER them who defied their wishes and the laws governing such practices.

          • teila

            … and what does that have anything to do with what Tony Marcus was saying?

          • Jerry

            Atheists and you can’t get it.

          • Katherine

            Atheist refused to believe in all this religious garbage of the Christians and Muslims etc. because there is no factual proof, in the original form dated two people who actually saw either Mohammed or Jesus in the flesh. Christians and Muslims are mentally ill because they believe in imaginary friends

          • Jerry

            I have seen plenty of proof. Perhaps God has given up on you?

          • roadwarrior

            What do you deign to be proof?

          • Jerry

            I would have to show you and you would still deny it so I won’t bother with you. Tell Satan and his demons they are still going to hell no matter what they try to make you say. I have wasted enough comments on you. If I waste to many comments on you and your ilk my up vote to comment ratio will be as low as yours.

          • Richard

            Yes, cazie.. take comfort in the fact that the Bible made predictions some 2,000 years ago about what would be happening now. The more people that act in the ways the Bible said they would, the more those people prove that the Bible is the real deal!

          • Katherine

            How really stupid, this is like reading your daily horoscope. It’s like saying that anything you imagine is true. Christianity is not an original religion, Jesus and Moses etc. are all borrowed and copied from other previous religions. There is not one single original concept in the Bible. Everything about Jesus etc. was borrowed from previous religions. There were some 300 messiahs before during and after the Jesus myth what’s chosen by the pagan Emperor Constantine to create a church tax to help finance the failing Roman empire.

          • Katherine

            Revelations was chosen by a committee with only one vote to include in the King James Bible because it was so insane. The guy who wrote revelations never met Jesus, never called himself an apostle, and he basically took Old Testament writings and inserted Jesus in the myths. Anyone who follows revelations and end Times Scare tactics is insane.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Not to mention profoundly ignorant. Revalations was mostly a coded rant against Nero, not actual prophecy.

          • roadwarrior

            Revelations? Do you mean the delusions of the hermit, John of Patmos. Didn’t he say that only 144000 would get to heaven?

          • cazie

            You’re confusing the 144000 with what the Mormons say. We’ll talk on judgement day about delusions.

          • LittleRoot_48

            How very open minded of you! cazie is exactly right.

          • angelccorr

            Tony – It looks like your in the same league as the staff at this school. How do you like those nightmares your having?

          • Tony Marcus

            Let’s parse that message, angelcorr. First of all, your is possessive, I believe you meant to say “you’re”. Second, no one has accused “the staff” of this school of wrong doing, but rather one lunch monitor. If what happened is as described in the video, then that person should be informed that they’re trampling on the girl’s rights and to not repeat the mistake. What exactly is served by posting it on this website instead? The only thing I can think of is to inflame small minded people who are sure that “they” are out to get them somehow. So, what exactly is YOUR point? By the way, I sleep very well indeed.

          • Jerry

            Oh that is exactly what it is.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Ja know, I’d sell my soul to Satan any day to see Christians being fed to lions again for entertainment.

          • Jerry

            I suspect God has already given you over to a depraved mind.

          • Richard

            You just did sell it, now Satan doesn’t even have to provide the entertainment. He knows you were easy to fool and is working on those who worship Christ.

          • Susan

            So very true.

          • Katherine

            What total stupid silliness. The end times have been predicted for 1700 years, since the beginning of when this stupid myth of Jesus coming back was written by the Roman Catholic forgery factory. I am sick and tired of these scare tactics. This is one reason why the Christians are losing membership at a fast pace

          • Katherine

            Keep up the end times scare tactics and promoting the Christian myths. You are doing more for atheism than any other method.

          • roadwarrior

            Try 2000 years, the apostles expected it in their lifetimes.

          • Brian Robinson

            What are you talking about? 7 Million signed up!!! 7 Million can’t be wrong. Sarc!

          • torr10

            Try griping coherently when you attempt to insult someone.

          • Steve Harmon

            So you don’t follow EliseR? Oh, you’ve missed some good entertainment, torr.

          • LittleRoot_48

            I r ead her posts on here every time she has one. They are good for a laugh.

          • Steve Harmon

            Yup, funny but sad that people really think that way.

          • cazie

            I still don’t understand why you, Tony or Elise don’t just go be with your own kind. You don’t uphold free speech or freedom to worship unless it is someone of your ilk.

          • Tony Marcus

            ??? I totally uphold free speech, and stated above that, assuming the story is true, the employee needs to be told to keep her mouth shut about private prayer. So, what “kind” are you speaking of? Would YOU stand up the same way for her right to recite Muslim prayers as for Christian ones? THAT is what free speech implies, and what I DO stand for.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            But of late, a muslim wouldn’t have been interrupted and told to cease and decist!

          • Tony Marcus

            That’s total nonsense. What percentage of the American public is Muslim? What percentage identify as Christian? To maintain that Christians are being singled out for their beliefs is just insane.

          • Rose

            It’s not insane. You probably just aren’t hearing about all the attempts to censor Christianity (especially if you get you info from the mainstream media). It is becoming rampant. This little 5 yr. old is not an isolate incident. And yes, I certainly would stand up for a Muslim’s freedom to pray if they weren’t being disruptive. That’s what freedom of religion is all about. We are not to prohibit the free exercise thereof.

          • Tony Marcus

            Rose, while I can’t say for certain what you refer to, my guess is that you are talking about taking sectarian religious references out of government. Whether you agree with this or not (it IS what most of the founding fathers seem to have believed), it doesn’t target Christianity, it targets whatever religion is being favored by government. As the USA is overwhelmingly populated by those self describing as Christians, it’s not strange that most of the “censorship” (which it certainly isn’t) is aimed at Christian iconography. If you actually know of any instances of other religions being favored over Christianity in such circumstances, I’d be very interested in hearing about them.

          • Rose

            Tony, just to give a few examples, Catholic Charities are no longer in the adoption services because they were being forced to violate their religious beliefs and grant children to homosexual couples. Hobby Lobby being forced to provide abortifacients in their healthcare coverage. I use to listen to a radio program (my job interferes now) with the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) taking calls from people all over the country whose religious rights were being infringed. Some examples were: children not being allowed to read their Bibles at lunch, some not able to bring them to school at all, students not allowed to mention God in their speeches. This is happening all over the country.

          • Tony Marcus

            My take on most of what you say is that you’re looking at things the wrong way around. For example: Hobby Lobby’s owners state that their religious beliefs forbid them from granting birth control services to employees. If they are successful in this suit, it would mean that any employer who doesn’t want to provide ANY health insurance for their employees would just have to claim to be Christian Scientist. Would you approve of a Muslim employer being allowed to refuse to hire qualified women because the job requires mixing with men, and thus is against their religion? Now, if there are verified stories of students not being allowed to read the Bible quietly while at school, I would insist that is antithetical to our basic freedoms, and I will join you in condemning it (I’d appreciate a link to a verified story of this happening). If, on the other hand, they are attempting to convert other students while at school, that should not be allowed. If, say, a Satanist were trying to bring students into his fold at a public school, I imagine you’d be upset…I know I would. The same standard has to apply to all religions equally.

          • Rose

            I read the statement from Hobby Lobby. They never said they were against all contraceptives. They are against abortion-inducing drugs. There is a big difference here. As far as the Muslim example, I’m really not sure. Would this be a religious conviction based on the Koran or Sharia law? I will try to find a link about school children’s religious freedoms being violated.

          • Tony Marcus

            I had not read their statement, but just did so. It seems to me that the important fact here is the legality of the treatment. Now, people can and do have religious (and other) beliefs that conflict with law. Some have the courage of their convictions and are willing to go to jail (i.e. Thoreau) in support of their convictions. If you live in a society of law, you can’t expect to refuse to obey the law and not pay the price. In this particular case, the cost would be to pay the penalty for not providing insurance…it wouldn’t involve a criminal case unless they also refused to pay the statutory fine. It’s not a simple issue, and people DO have deeply held beliefs. I find it a very dangerous precedent, however, to use any religious conviction to allow a company to circumvent a law…going once again to the hypothetical case of a discrimination suit brought against a corporation headed by a fundamentalist Muslim who refused to hire women, in contravention of the laws governing fair employment. Certainly there are Muslims who are willing to allow women and men to be in contact outside the family, but there is basis in the Koran for outlawing such practices…I just don’t see how we could have any sort of legal system if all you had to do was claim a religious exemption to any law that you didn’t like.

          • Richard

            Yes, a business should be able to put into place any rules they feel are appropriate regarding their faith. What about religious freedom don’t you understand?
            Further, any person at school should be able to try to spread the news about their religion during appropriate periods. Lunch, recess… etc. What’s so wrong with that?

            You are calling for separation of State from religion, but in the very same breath saying the school should be involved in STOPPING Christians from believing or talking about their beliefs which is EXACTLY what our forefathers intended to stop from happening.

          • Tony Marcus

            It’s long been a truism that a school is a special circumstance. For example: it’s currently the law of the land that any citizen may own a firearm. In many places, you’re allowed to carry one on your person. Do you know of any school that allows this? Do you think it would be wise to do so? No one is arguing that Christians (or any other religion) should be stopped from believing the tenets of their religion. Promulgation is a very different thing, and THAT is what our forefathers were worried about: that, in an office of the state, a specific religion should be favored. If you insist that there’s no favoritism involved, would you then speak up for the rights of adherents of the Church of Satan to try and make converts of school students? What is allowed for one religion MUST be allowed for all.

          • Rose

            Tony, I believe we have government overreach like we’ve never seen. This is the first administration to disregard the Hyde Amendment which did not allow tax payer money to be used for abortion. I believe Hobby Lobby’s constitutional rights are being violated. Personally, I don’t believe the government should force any business to provide insurance. We have a president who disregards the law when he disagrees with it. He said he would refuse to enforce DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act); He also is not enforcing federal immigration laws. He even went so far as to sue one of our own United Sates when Arizona wanted to secure their border and stop human trafficking and the damage to their states by illegal aliens. One third of our federal prisoners are illegal aliens. Here are some examples of the war on the free exercise of religion. I’m quoting from the Dec. 2013 Phyllis Schlafly Report. She is informative and accurate. She has never had to retract a statement: A Young Marines program in Louisiana, which as been helping at-risk youth for 25 yeaars, lost its federal funding because its graduation ceremony mentions God. The oath says simply, ‘I shall never do anything that would bring disgrace or dishonor upon my God, my country and its fd, my parents, myself or the

          • Rose

            (My computer froze up) to continue:’I shall never do anything that would bring disgrace or dishonor upon my God, my country and its flag during, my parents, myself or the Young Marines. Graduation also includes a voluntary and non-denominational prayer that, in 25 years, no one ever complained about. But Obama’s Dept of Justice discovered the oath and prayer in a random audit and then demanded that both be removed or else the government would cut off its $15,000 in federal funding. (Also), a high school football coach, Marcus Borden, was forbidden even to bow his head or “take a knee” during voluntary student-led prayers before the games. In Texas, a boy’s track relay team ran its fastest race of the year and defeated its closest rival by seven yards, which should have enabled it to advance toward the state championship. The team’s anchor runner pointed to the sky to give glory to God as he crossed the finish line, but someone didn’t like the gesture so the authorities disqualified this winning team because of it.

          • Rose

            Also, from the Phyllis Schlafly Report, “Alexis de Toqueville, the Frenchman who traveled around our country in the mid_19th century wrote: “Upon my arrival in the United Sates, the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention….The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other.” There are more examples in her report. We were founded as a Christian nation as declared by the Supreme Court. I wouldn’t go to an Islamic nation and then tell them how offended I am at their practicing their faith in public. I don’t expect people to do that in America. Tony, have you seen the documentary by Ben Stein called, “Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed”? It exposed how people in the science field, and journalists covering the science field cannot even mention the words “intelligent design.” They lose their government grants and many times even their jobs. I believe we are on a slippery slope–and that’s not good (in my opinion).

          • Tony Marcus

            Rose, the US is forbidden by law from funding anything with a religious advocacy, no matter what it might be. In return, religions in the US are all tax free, which basically means that many billions of dollars every year are kept by religions in a way that secular groups would not be allowed. Part of DOMA was declared unconstitutional last year. If the attorney general advises the president that a law in fact IS unconstitutional, do you think the law should still be enforced while the matter is going through the courts? You’re certainly entitled to believe that, it sounds to me like a total waste of government funds, and intrusion into individual liberties that Ms. Schlafly and her ilk say they hold so dear. You’ll find at every level of government that not all laws are enforced. Some of them are outdated and ridiculous, others would end up with the courts hopelessly clogged with offenses that do not damage the common weal. I won’t go into the Arizona matter because I find their state government to be scandalous…once again, it’s a matter of personal opinion. You say you don’t believe the government should force employers to provide insurance. I would guess you’re also opposed to ACA and other government insurance programs (correct me if I’m wrong). Now, I don’t have the widest circle of friends, but among those I do have I know three families who were bankrupted TOTALLY because they were unable to secure medical insurance and were faced with catastrophic illness. Every other first world country has state mandated health insurance, and they all cost significantly less than our expense, and (according to the WHO) 34 other countries have better health outcomes than we do. If we instituted a true single payer plan in the US, employers would have no need to provide health insurance. Anyway, I can see that we have irreconcilable differences of opinion on a number of matters. Nevertheless, I appreciate you taking the time to discuss matters with me. Good luck, and God bless.

          • Richard

            Rose, never try to talk sense to one that is blinded by Satan. This is exactly what is meant in the Bible by not throwing pearls before swine. To Tony and his ilk, causing Christians to do things that are against their beliefs is not persecution because Christians need to keep their faith to themselves and it doesn’t belong in the workplace, or school, or in any public place. Just the mere suggestion that a Christian shouldn’t speak to others about Christ in any place they like is persecution since one of the main ideas behind Christ’s message is to spread the word to everyone!

            What has you so scared? You afraid that the tiny percentage of loudmouth non-believers in this country will dwindle?

            Over 70 percent of Americans claim to be involved in either a major christian faith or Catholic. Shouldn’t the majority of people be able to get what they want? Why is is right for the tiny percentage of non-believers to be able to change policy of a nation against the majority’s beliefs?

          • Tony Marcus

            Wow….so, when I have, as an experiment, asked those in favor of unfettered gun ownership (on the pages of this very site) whether, in the event that there was enough of a majority of the population that a NEW amendment to the Constitution were passed which limited the right to own firearms, if they would comply with the amended Constitution. Pretty much without exception, those answering decried the “tyranny of the majority” and said that just because most of the population favored one stance it didn’t mean that THEY should have to comply with it. You say, Richard, that you support “speaking to others about Christ in any place they like”. Would you then support Christians going into a mosque or synagogue to attempt to convert the worshipers there? If you do, then presumably you’d also support Muslims coming into your church to try to convert you, while disrupting your church service. The few actual atheists I know tend to be as closed minded as any religious fundamentalists, and just as interested in converting others to their orthodoxy. I’m far less worried about offending them than the people who are adherents of an actual faith that ISN’T embraced by the 70% of the populace you claim for Christianity (it’s also interesting that you describe that number as being either a “major Christian faith OR Catholic…a little unconscious bias showing through there???). As I stated elsewhere, I would stand up for the rights of any Christians, or any other faithful, who are told they cannot worship as they choose. But, no, the simple fact that Christians are the majority of the population does NOT give them extraordinary rights, only the same rights as all other faiths.

          • Richard

            Truth is insanity? Well then, ignorance must be bliss eh Tony?

          • Tony Marcus

            Fine, Richard…give me a few examples of unequal treatment of Christians by the US government.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            You mean like the Muslim family thrown out of the Empire State Building for praying to the wrong God in public?

          • LittleRoot_48

            Would that same muslim stand up for a Christian’s right to say a prayer in public?

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            Now that really poses a good ethics question, but can ,I pick me, pick me, answer that?

          • Tony Marcus

            Well, LittleRoot_48, that would entirely depend upon the Muslim. I’d say that the overwhelming preponderance of them in the US would absolutely stand up for a Christian’s right to worship as they choose. After all, they are used to being vilified for their choice of religion by the bigoted portion of the allegedly Christian populace. There are of course some fundamentalist Muslim fanatics who insist that only THEIR religion deserves any protection. You’ll see many posts on this page by their Christian equivalents…people who think they’re following Jesus by spewing hatred. I pity them.

          • Richard

            No, you don’t pity them, you hate them. Be brave enough to say exactly why you are willing to vilify Christians for their choice of religion because you are part of the bigoted portion of the United States population.

            You claim Christians are doing things WHILE DOING THOSE THINGS TO CHRISTIANS!

            You Tony are both a moron and a hypocrite!

          • teila

            Exactly. The first time Cazie hears a guy walk up to the podium at a school graduation and start praying to HIS devil God, I have no doubt Cazie would show his/her true colours then… like many other purported “Christians”.
            Everything is dandy as long as it’s your religion that is being tolerated, but as soon as people start putting up Devil/ demon/ water worshiping, etc., related decorations at public offices, the courthouse, and other public places, all the sudden there would be a huge uproar, but it’s fine and dandy as long as it’s a Christian representation being displayed.
            Hypocrites!

          • Richard

            teila, you do realize that over 70 percent of our country professes to be involved in a Christian faith right? Why is it the loudmouth few that are able to dictate the rules for the majority.

          • teila

            What % of the South wanted to keep blacks men and women enslaved? What % of those 70% who profess to be Christian take their teenage daughters to abortion clinics? What % of those 70% cheat on their wives, view porn or get divorced?

            The bottom line is that the % of people who claim to be Christian doesn’t have anything to do with what’s right or wrong.

            What was the % of men at a given point that didn’t think women had the scruples to vote? That didn’t mean women should’ve been denied that right now does it?

            This nation isn’t about “majority rules”; but rather what’s right…. or who has the most money ;)

          • Richard

            Oh, and by the way. Easter bunny, Santa, Halloween… are you not smart enough to see that these things are Anti-Christian? I really don’t see a huge uproar going on, most of the Christians I know simply don’t get involved with such things if they believe it goes against what Christ tells them to do.

            And you are every bit as Hypocritical as anyone else on this planet. Just because Christians follow Christ’s teaching, doesn’t give them God-like perfection. All humans are screwed up your hatred for Christians is as screwed up as Christian’s hatred of any other person. But you, in your ignorance, lump all Christians into that which you hate. Shame on you!

          • Tony Marcus

            Where exactly did Teila demonstrate hatred for Christians? Was it in stating that they should be treated on an equal footing with other religions? You have an interesting world view. She did criticize “purported Christians” who seem to only wish to sow hatred, rather than the loving message of Jesus.

          • teila

            I don’t know how many times I have to say it Richard. Pay attention. I have said (any religion) time and time again. I think that all of it has no place in public school, or public offices/bldgs. I don’t care if it’s the silly easter rabbit or someone’s golden calf… it doesn’t belong there- do all that stuff on your own private or corporate property, not public property.

            I never said I hated anyone. Quote me, don’t make things up. I haven’t mentioned my personal beliefs, nor whether I embrace or reject any particular religion. I’m strictly keeping my conversation to the issue at hand; whether or not religious “stuffs” should be allowed in public schools, offices/bldgs, military, etc.

            I think whatever you do on private property or corporate property that doesn’t receive gov. funding is up to you.

            My problem is that if Becky wheels out a golden calf on the stage at a high school graduation and said “Let us pray”… people would go nuts. I’d go nuts too because I think if Becky wants to pray, she should get with her friends at home, church, in her car, at burger king, at the lake, or wherever other than public school *during a public moment*, and pray then/there. Some people don’t know when to do what, and the law is having to address those people through case law.

          • Richard

            There is a time and a place. If the Muslim, Jew, place religion here was praying quietly at a meal then no problem. But problem is, if this was another religion nothing would have been said because popular secular public opinion is that Christians should be stopped from doing these things but other religions are to be protected under religious freedom.

          • Tony Marcus

            You have absolutely no understanding of what is actually going on. I DO feel so sorry for you, as part of the persecuted minority of suffering Christians who are being held to EXACTLY THE SAME STANDARD as all other religions.

          • Eric G

            I guess the sad part is if you could not understand what I wrote, whether you agree with it or not, suggests you might want to look up the definition of “coherently”.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            You only left out one word, “turning,” but she couldn’t fill in the blank with her own mind. Just a parrot and she proved that she is totally incapable of a free thought process!

          • MSG L

            Now Erick, that is just funny

          • Randy Wiley

            Your view is that of ignorant Christians who run into a faith community and cry of the burden of their walk. Weak sisters of the selfish and unusable. You are not even smart enough to see your actions are more like the Pharasies then Jesus. My rights. My faith. Nice cry of the church of weak sisters. So you think Jesus might wish for you to actually have a spine beyond posting a YouTube video and go to the school and take this as a chance to show the substance of what you believe in redemption. How very fake.

          • Eric G

            What the heck are you talking about? I support the parents and the child. And we are not aware of the continuation of this event, unless you have access to additional reporting.

          • Doug

            Obama had been at that school just that morning instructing the cafeteria personnel.

          • boone1

            Best get off your AZZSS now are for ever hold you mouth.Time for a REVOLATION in this country folks.

          • Cold War Vet

            Save your breath Jerry. Some people here have an “excuse” for everything. .

          • Lisa_Nickerson

            Has nothing to do with Obama. Has to do with everyone and their “rights” that seem to over ride the rights of everyone around them. Atheist think they have the right to a god free world, when their right is actually to live a godless life. We shouldn’t have to take down signs, or anything else to do with religion. Why would someone else’s beliefs bother mine?!!

          • roadwarrior

            Yes, no matter the hysterical crisis it all goes back to Obama…”Thanks Obama “

        • Subcomandante Goatz

          Notice how the same people who supported the Empire State Building throwing a Muslim family out for praying are offended when a Christian is treated that way?

          • Eric G

            Great comment! This is the same person who railed about how the family was not hurting anyone, defended their actions because they probably “stood in line for hours” to get to the tourist attraction, and also because “who were they hurting?”. The hypocrisy is overflowing like a plugged up toilet.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            You need some reading comprehension classes, I agree with ElsieR completely here.

            The child was obviously coached by her parents, and the video is a fake. Yet another member of the dominant religious culture claiming false persecution.

          • Eric G

            Thanks for the advice, I’ll sign up at the same college that EliseR and you must have attended. There is no doubt in my mind it was the bastion of free speech for all, equality for all, and complete consistency when standing up for personal freedoms when making an argument regardless of whether one agrees with what happened or not. That’s so nice to see you are that knowledgeable, insightful, and can declare something is a fake when you have done nothing but watch it. Do you know the family? Do you have contacts at the school? Is there some inside track that you have access to that the rest of us don’t?

          • Tony Marcus

            Indeed, it does seem foolish to say that the video must be faked. In fact, it’s pretty much exactly as foolish as saying that the video must be true.

          • Eric G

            I see you put a great deal of effort and research to answer my simple questions to you. Rather than answer, you avoid. Typical tactic which lends no credibility to your argument.

          • Tony Marcus

            How would you suggest that I might research what you ask? The simple fact that, rather than just go to the school and make sure that the offending employee is told to never interfere with anyone’s private prayer again, the parents have chosen to try and make some political hay by posting this on a public site shows that their concern for their daughter is not their primary aim. You seem perfectly happy to believe whatever is set before you, as long as it’s on a site that agrees with your worldview. If you actually bothered to read all the comments on here, you’d see that I also disagree with those who claim that the whole thing must be a fraud. IF the video is accurate, then there’s a bad employee who should be corrected in her actions. IF the video is not, the parents are exploitive in the extreme.

          • Eric G

            Ok, this is an effort in futility. You claim the video is a fake, then say you wrote other comments saying it is not. You proved my point-you admit you cannot research the proof that this is a fake while having made the statement it is just that. Double speak is pathetic, and you have no idea what sites I read, believe, and comment on, which is another example of your jump to conclusions without having facts. Have a great day.

          • Tony Marcus

            I never “claimed the video was a fake”. I stated that it’s weird that the parents took the tack of posting the video to this site rather than dealing with the problem at the school. One scenario that makes sense is that they coached the kid into saying what she did to make a political point. It’s also entirely possible the seized upon an actual incident to present poor beleaguered Christians as martyrs. Also, despite what your weird posting above suggests, I have never imputed ANY motivations to you….I have no idea who you are or why you think I have even expressed any interest in you. I think you need to work on your reading comprehension a bit before you denigrate anyone else.

          • Eric G

            Tony, I owe you an apology. For some reason, when I hit reply to SubGoetz, your replies were coming up (off the main page of Discuss). After rereading the entire comment thread from the beginning (from the very first post, not by you or I), I see that it was that person who had made the claim, and several of his/her comments have been deleted. I had never defended the video as absolute proof; my initial argument to SubGoetz was similar to yours and I was calling this person out for stating the video was an outright fake.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            My experience is that American Christians who claim persecution fall into one of two categories, people who are completely lying, and people who were trying to force their religion on others.

            BTW – I went to a rather well respected small Methodist college. Oddly enough, I was the treasurer of our chapter of College Republicans, so I’ve obviously gotten much more wise as I’ve aged. Then again, that was long enough ago that one could be pro-choice, pro-union, and still hold a leadership position in CRs.

          • Eric G

            Yes, your personal experience of American Christians claiming persecution. How many have you personally known? Of those you know, how many have made those claims? How many of those claims did you personally witness the outcome? You put forth your experience as the basis of your conclusion. Please back that up. If you have based your assumption on the reports of others, then it is not your “personal experience”, but your faith in the information you are being given is truth. I wonder if you have ever attacked or questioned an issue that you agree with if similar circumstances applied?

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            And your “Obvious,” proof is where?

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            The fact that the only evidence is this YouTube video. There is no coverage in news, only conservative blogs citing the YouTube video as their only source. As that is the only source available, I can only judge the claim by what I see, which is a child responding to leading questions in a way that looks staged.

          • LittleRoot_48

            How dare you say that? I see families saying grace in restaurants all the time. This child was not being “coached.” She was following the way she was taught to give thanks to God for the food. Christians are the last people you need to be afraid of.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            I dare very well, thank you.

            If someone else knows you are praying when you are in public, you are doing it wrong.

            “But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your
            Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in
            secret, will reward you.” ~Matthew 6:6

          • LittleRoot_48

            When eating out in public, I can’t very well “go into my room and close the door” to say Grace, can I? If you see me sitting at the table with my head bowed and my eyes closed, you will know I’m saying thanks to God for my food….quietly. If that offends your atheism, you’ll just have to get over it.

          • Eric G

            I guess you need the same, if you could not see the sarcasm in my post. EliseR and you are guilty of the same thing you rail against others.

          • Rose

            I would guess that you have no way of knowing that this video is a fake.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            If it was real, it would be big news. The fact that the only coverage it is getting it right-wing blogs citing no other sources than the video is the best proof it is fake.

            You notice that the video provides absolutely no specifics about what happened that could either be used to prove that it was not true, or give someone accused a chance to sue them for slander.

            Be honest, if this was a Muslim family posting the exact same video, except claiming that the lunch teacher said Muslims were going to Hell for not worshiping Christ, you’d insist it was a fake.

          • Rose

            The main stream media is no friend of the censored Christians. There have been many incidences in which freedom of religion has been violated. The mainstream media is always silent. They (I believe) are complicit because they hate what Christians stand for.

          • mhgoats1

            The Qur’an does not say that they MUST pray five times a day, but they should try and also be aware of circumstances. They are also not to make a spectacle of themselves while doing such. Also they are required to remove their shoes (and if possible their socks) so now this could also be considered a possible health hazard or a danger to them if there is something sharpe or cutting on the ground.

            Been five years working in various “Middle Eastern” countries.

          • Trythis Last

            I don’t know if you are Muslim, but yours is one of very few, if any, responses I’ve read that seem willing to shed light on emotion.
            Thank you.

          • mhgoats1

            Muslim no, but I have read the Qur’an, Hadith, and the “Authorized Biography of Mohammed” while over there attempting to understand the culture and people I worked with.

            Now as far as my personal opinion goes with it, Mohammed was an insane criminal who wanted to be revered. He took the teachings of Christ and twisted things around to fit his and his friends desires. It is called reading between the lines and understanding the history of the times, people, and cultures.

            A friend of mine learned to speak, read, and write Arabic, and was learning (or attempting to) Aramaic (sp). He did it so he could read the Qur’an in Arabic, have discussions with the people’s over there (and the clerics, lol) and when they told him he didn’t know the real Qur’an but only the translated version which was incorrect, he would then start in with Arabic and reading from it! Basically scared the heck out of them because he did know and understand it better than they did.

            It’s not a bad bit of fiction, but so was Meine Kompf.

          • HonestToAtee

            Great post and I also find the actual truth about the lie of Islam and the Koran very important! Here is an explanation as to why Islam is a lie!

            “An Historical Critique of Islam’s Beginnings – Jay Smith”

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9lIuUjPs0

          • LittleRoot_48

            They get very suspicious of people who speak and understand their language.

          • homer1057

            The Koran: you obviously have read this RAG: But here are few things you may NOT have noticed, and for all who need to know what is in this RAG! here are some examples 1. In Sura 18:86 ..the sun sets in a puddle of mud..(yeah right) 2. Sura 2:65 people become monkeys if they break the sabbath..(Muslims) also see the Hadith, (what Muhammed said) 3. Hadith/Bukhari vol 4 no 543 Adam was 60 Cubits) 90 feet tall. 4. The Muslim has ONE/1 intestine and everyone else (LOLOLOLOL) has seven/7 Hadith/Muslim vol 3 no’s 5113, 5114-5120 5. Don’t pray and look up, your eyes will pop out Hadith/Muslim vol 1 no 863 Ch CCLXXII THESE are just a few of the OUTRIGHT lies and deceptions in the Koran/Hadith. See “Muhammed’s Believe it or Else” by Abdullah Aziz (Cresent Moon Publications (23 pg. less than 4 dollars) for more of the same! PEOPLE need to familiarize themselves w/Islam and “SEE” the lies!!

          • torr10

            Do you have a spare copy of your Bible that doesn’t have any inconsistencies? I would love to know what a Chariot of Fire actually is. It must be so carefully explained in your Bible. Such a great, love filled Christian you are.

          • Eric G

            Although I have not agreed with your earlier posts, this one is right on concerning the comparison of metaphors contained in both the Bible and Qur’an.

          • KjirstinYoungberg

            These might give you a clue, Torr. The truth has been hidden for ages. http://www.youtube.com/user/csetiweb

          • Brian Pickell

            I can give you another inconsistency. Christians always talk about judgement day. But if you ask for forgiveness for your sins, all of your sins will be absolved. So what’s the point of judgement, if your sins no longer exist?

            The bible also states to not have any images or idols that portray of any entity in Heaven, try to find a church that doesn’t.

            One of the Christians own Commandments states to not worship any idols other than the one true God. And Catholics pray to Marry. Christians Pray to Jesus.

          • jimoaklanduniv

            They don’t want to be confused with FACTS!!!! Typical Mind Numbed Obamabots!!

          • Watchman on the Wall

            Any demonic religion which has to use government force of a jackboot on peoples’ necks to remain in the “faith” is not of God; it is of the devil, as are all forms of organized religion today (even so-called Christian ones). the ONLY true faith is in Jesus Christ (Yahushua), YHWH and the Bible. this is all anyone truly needs. All other frauds claim you can earn your way to salvation. Only The Bible teaches salvation by God’s grace to His elect ONLY. All others are condemned to damnation. No other false religion is rooted in the centrality of its founder: God / Christ Himself. the bones of the founders of all other false religions are buried somewhere. Jesus’ are not.

            It is the DIFFERENCES that count. Aspirin and arsenic both come in tablet form. One kills. Don’t you think it’s relevant to figure out which is which? I would say, have nothing to do with anything other than Biblical truth. Those who listen to liars (i.e. read the Koran) will be destroyed. The Bible says so in the Book of Proverbs. That’s good enough for me.

          • ScarletPimpernil

            But, Jesus never asked us to worship him. Rather, he said he made his father’s name manifest. Of course, he did not pray to himself, seat himself before himself or at his own right hand, hand the keys of the kingdom of God back to himself. . . . .

            These are not contradictions in the Bible. Rather, they are points Christian’s ignore or fail to note, as they raise the creation above the creator, but which is all to common of men (e.g., making the U.S. greater than the several, states (countries) in union.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            I have only one issue with your post and wish to hear how you feel about this point. The fact that Jesus is worshipped is because he is the Son Of God, and as such, is a conduit TO THE CREATOR. Both ways, you achieve the same result.

          • lovinspoonful

            He is also God. God in three persons – blessed trinity. Chistianity is not of the devil. If you don’t believe, fine but don’t blaspheme Christians for their beliefs.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            I was NOT blaspheming The Father, The Son, The Holy Ghost! I only wanted to know why she said what she did about Jesus being worshipped. Yes, He is the Son! and worshipped as such. I have NO PROBLEM with that. I’m a God Fearin, Gun Totin, American Patriot, Conservative, Veteran!

          • Brian Pickell

            God him/herself never came down from heaven and announced this to anyone. This is an assumption brought on by the catholic church.

          • Brian Pickell

            But God Commanded no one is to worship “Anyone” Other than him. Period.

          • Watchman on the Wall

            What’s your point?

            Jesus came to testify to the truth, to teach God’s truth to those who might hear (God’s elect) and to take the sins of God’s elect upon Himself and pay the price for them (namely death), so that His righteousness might be imputed to those of us who have been blessed enough to number among God’s elect. Meanwhile, Jesus revealed the truth to us right under the noses of the vastly larger number of God’s non-elect, His spiritual goats, created by God for their day of destruction so that God might be glorified and made manifest in all men.

            Now we are living in the time of the great tribulation foretold in Daniel 12 and Matthew 24. One year down, 2 1/2 more to go until the whole world figures this out. Then all will know that the Bible has been 100% true and trustworthy all along. The story of God is unstoppable. he has allowed the world to grow more wicked and evil than at any other time in all of world history to deliver an unmistakeable message to all f mankind: without God, we all are completely screwed and will make a royal mess of things, as we clearly have today.

            In light of this reality, is it, or is it not right, kind and loving for a lunch lady to intimidate and indoctrinate any child and ban her from praying under any circumstances? The truthful and righteous answer that would please God is “No,it is wrong!” Yet our wicked world would respond just the opposite of this, because our world today is ruled by the prince of this world, the father of lies, the arch-enemy of then truth and of Jesus, namely the devil: “Do as thou wilt.”

          • Tony Marcus

            You do realize, “Watchman on the Wall”, that your screed is as full of hate as the worst Islamic terrorist? No wonder the world is in the shape it is, when religious fundamentalists of different religions each try to poison the minds of their fellow believers. I’ll pray for you to learn the true lesson of Jesus, and judge not lest ye be judged.

          • Watchman on the Wall

            You do realize, that the TRUTH has nothing in the world to do with hate, don’t you?

            Moreover, you do realize that people and institutions which seek to deceive and harm others are DESERVING OF HATRED and that all true protective, masculine men know this and live by this principle, don’t you? Apparently not. the world’s filled with unthinking fools like you.

            Jesus did NOT teach those of us who are God’s elect to be stupid and not judge the behaviors and characters of others. We are to judge ALL THINGS, but condemnation is up to God. Pulling one verse out of context is not the truth of Jesus at all. He was teaching to not be a hypocrite and work on our own stuff first, then help others work on their stuff. You would know this if you had any honesty and integrity about you and had read the verses immediately following Matthew 7:1, but that didn’t suit your deceptive agenda, did it?

            Don’t bother praying for me. YHWH detests the prayers of the wicked and wouldn’t listen, even if your motives were pure: which they most clearly are not.

          • Brian Pickell

            What happened to Judge not less the be judged two fold?

          • Watchman on the Wall

            Show me where is says such thing?!? Matthew 7:1 can only be properly understood in the context of verses 2-5. With such context, it is clear that Jesus is using the English word “judge” with the meaning “condemn to hell,” and NOT “discern, reveal and expose that which is evil or wicked.” After all, if you wish to sling Bible verses, how do you reconcile your false claim with Ephesians 5:11?

            “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove (expose) them.” Ephesians 5:11 To do such a thing, God’s elect must discriminate (judge) between good and evil.

            But you really don’t care about the truth, do you? You merely care to take one verse out of context to abuse a true man of God with one of your many lies. This is a very common one and one therefore that I am already quite familiar with.

            Only those who are of the truth hear the voice of Jesus, He told Pilate at John 18:37. Anyone taking verses out of context is not honest, is not of the truth, and therefore is a person of the lie, and knowingly or unknowingly, serves the father of lies, the devil. In 2 1/2 years, that will be a very dangerous place to be.

          • Tony Marcus

            Wow…Jesus was using the English word? That alone proves that he was the Messiah, in that English did not exist as a language for many hundreds of years after Jesus’ time.

          • Watchman on the Wall

            The English, in proper context ought to have been translated as “condemn,” not “discern.” The English word “judge” is defined both ways. How do I know the right definition. Context of the next 4 verses.

            To fail to judge and discern between good and harmful is stupid and foolish. But you already knew that, didn’t you? You’re merely seeking to confuse and deceive the naive and the gullible. You failed.

          • Tony Marcus

            I wouldn’t bother answering such nonsense, but it’s fun to point out that you just called yourself naive and gullible. Thanks for the entertainment!

          • Watchman on the Wall

            Obviously,you’re nothing more than a spoiled, petulant child. Your mockery proves you to be a morally deficient fool. All fools perish the same way: suddenly and without remedy. Let’s see you mock the second coming of Yahushua in 2 1/2 years.

          • Watchman on the Wall

            Please show us where in the Bible it teaches God’s elect to be stupid and fail to discern between the good and the healthy and the bad and the harmful?

          • roadwarrior

            You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together. And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

            Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
            Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
            He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
            And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.”
            Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
            Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

            Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

            And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto

          • Watchman on the Wall

            What’s your point? Other than demonstrating that you can copy and paste, this accomplishes nothing.

          • lildebrarae

            Copying and posting facts and evidence is better than ranting about the evil Christians.

          • Brian Pickell

            Facts? What Facts? I work on the sabath all the time. I have yet to be put to death. Doesn’t sound like fact to me. I also trim my beard, Cut my hair. Yep still here.

          • roadwarrior

            The asinine origins and rules of the 3 main monotheistic religions. there is all sorts of talk about god wants this and Jesus wants that; well, I would venture NONE of you are following all the rules.

          • Watchman on the Wall

            The only thing asinine is the ignorant and blind faith of an atheist who wrongly asserts that God does not exist and does not speak to some of us.

            You completely miss the truth of Biblical Christianity, which is not at all about living perfect lives. it is about (some of us) having a personal and intimate relationship with the all powerful, all knowing, holy, righteous, just, loving God who created all things. Only the Bible teaches the truth that all men are born selfish, depraved, sinful and separated from a right relationship with this almighty God and are heading for an eternity of torment in hell. Only the Bible teaches that only God can save a man and that He will only do so if that man or woman numbers among God’s elect: chosen by God since before the world began, to become one of his adopted sons or daughters at a time and in a manner of His choosing and at His initiative – not man’s. True Biblical Christianity has almost nothing to do with following rules and everything to do with obeying and submitting to God’s more perfect will out of love and gratitude to Him for what He first did for us. By grace alone are God’s elect saved. All others are created by God for their own eventual destruction and damnation. You may not like to hear this, but it is the truth nevertheless and God is the source of all truth.

            The issue for you is not what is true. The issue you have is that at some level you know that you do not number among God’s elect and that in the end, you will be condemned to hell for rebelling against God, whose truth is written on every man’s heart. You just stubbornly refuse to bow your knee to a sovereign and all powerful God. But you will very soon.

          • LittleRoot_48

            That was the Old Testament, God’s first covenant with His people. Jews follow the Old Testament. God made a new covenant with the people….the New Testament.

          • Brian Pickell

            That’s a copout that Christians use. “That’s Old Testament, it doesn’t apply” That is more so the word of God than anything in the New Testament.

          • Tony Marcus

            I have no idea of your feelings on homosexuality, LittleRoot, though I do know that many of your fellow travelers consider it an abomination. The ONLY Biblical basis for that judgement is from the very same Old Testament that you just disowned. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality at all, so now that you have been enlightened, I trust that you will go spread the good news that gays can be holy too. In fact, most all the judgmental crap in the Bible is from the Old Testament, and yet those calling themselves Christians continue to call the obnoxious stuff they like the word of God. Jews on the whole gave up believing most of that stuff hundreds of years ago.

          • Doug

            I have asked my Christian friends many times about the Old Testament. Is it the Absolute Word of God. Oh yes, I’m told. Then if I ask about the inconsistencies with the New Testament I’m told that the New negates the Old.

          • HonestToAtee

            An Historical Critique of Islam’s Beginnings – Jay Smith

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd9lIuUjPs0

          • lovinspoonful

            How did we get from a little 5-year old girl praying to herself over her lunch to the muslims and their religion and habits and the quran?

          • LittleRoot_48

            We got there because people have no problem prohibiting Christians like this little girl from praying in public, but wouldn’t dare prohibit muslims from doing the same thing. We are simply pointing out the hypocrisy.

          • lildebrarae

            Bingo!

          • Eric G

            I guess it is the magic of internet blogging and the habit of certain contributors to change the subject when their argument fails.

          • Doug

            Jesus is one of the great prophets of Islam.

          • Tony Marcus

            How long did Methuselah live in the Bible again? Oh, yeah it’s clearly all accurate whereas the Koran is a pack of lies…Wise up people, both of those books are full of foolishness mixed with wisdom. Do you act on the Biblical advice of what size stick to use to beat your wife? How about the Bible’s teachings on the proper way to punish your slaves?

          • jimoaklanduniv

            These obamabot IDIOTS can’t be bothered with FACTS!!!!!!

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Who cares? The Bible does not command little girls to pray in school cafeterias, so by your logic this lunch lady did the right thing.

          • HonestToAtee

            You seem to have a problem with the 1st Amendment.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Funny, that’s exactly what I say when you wing-nuts are either trying to force your religion on others, or silence those who dare express an opinion you don’t like or find offensive.

          • HonestToAtee

            Problem with your comment is it’s a total lie. No one is forcing religion on anyone except Atheists and Muslums and no one is trying to silence people except Obama, Democrats, Atheists and Muslums.
            Have a nice day.

          • mhgoats1

            The Bible also does not say not to pray before eating!

            http://www.gotquestions.org/prayer-before-meals.html

            Read with an open mind and not a closed one!

          • Watchman on the Wall

            God cares! Anything not prohibited by the Bible is permitted.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Your god only exists in the mind of his fan club. Hm, I seem to remember Leviticus prohibiting the eating of shrimp, yet I see plenty of Christians pigging-out at Red Lobster when they do all you can eat shrimp. The same Bible forbids men from shaving their beards or forelocks, yet most American Christians wear their hair short, and are clean shaven. Seems like the Bible only really forbids the things your ilk don’t like, and allows all you want to do.

            I sure know the Bible, and his Catholic faith condemn all the divorces Newt Gingrich has had, yet that’s OK, because he’s one of your fellow fascists.

          • Watchman on the Wall

            “Have nothing to do with a fool, for you will not find wisdom on his lips.” Proverbs

            But for the benefit of others:

            1) 99% of those professing to be Christians are frauds and spiritual goats headed for hell and are not what they claim to be.

            2) Colossians 2:16 cancels the prohibitions in the OT concerning what a person may eat or drink, along with hair practices In which the NT commands short hair on men and long hair on women.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            No, but her “FAITH,” does! Something you know nothing about!

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Faith is for morons. I prefer reality and sanity.

          • Eric G

            Nor does the Qur’an command a family pray on a crowded and narrow walkway at the top of the Empire State Building, when they could have gone inside and out of the way (which would have taken all of 20 seconds).

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Ah, another commenter to my comment claims that anything which the Bible does not forbid is allowed? Another said that it she does not need a commandment if her faith tells her to. This is a secular society. If you want Christianity to receive any accommodation from the rest of us, you need to allow the same accommodation to other faiths.

          • Eric G

            Ok, now you have proven it is a waste of time attempting to have a conversation. Just where in my comments have I said that. Wasn’t it you who suggested I learn what comprehension means? They say those that can’t do, teach.

          • LittleRoot_48

            We Christians do not have to be “commanded” to stop and offer a prayer to God or give thanks to him for our food. This lunch lady should have minded her own business.

          • Subcomandante Goatz

            Obviously. Christ commanded his followers to pray quietly in their rooms, and never make a show of piety. Yet you modern day Pharisees always love competing with each other over how ostentatious of a display of your “faith” you can make. It almost looks to the rest of us as if you are afraid that if you stop making noise about how much faith you have, you will start to doubt.

          • LittleRoot_48

            Well, for your information, when I am eating out in a public place, I bow my head, close my eyes and say a quiet prayer of thanks for my food. I, personally, have never witnessed any Christians making an “ostentatious” display of their faith in public anywhere. Trust me, I don’t have to make “noise” to show anyone how much faith I have and I NEVER doubt my God. That is what faith is all about.

          • Eric G

            Uh oh, now you have done it. How dare you bring in personal experience and facts when debating with a liberal! You just don’t play fair.

          • Debi Karppala

            NOT make a spectacle of themselves?? I lived in the Middle East for 13 years…and they DO make a spectacle of themselves when praying…they even would block our parking places at our apartments so we couldn’t get out if it was prayer time!

          • mhgoats1

            That was the fun of talking with them, the fact that most of them do not, themselves, following the Qur’an and the Hadith, they only do what they want to from it! It says they are supposed to read from the Qur’an at least one time per day. I watch a man do such, until I noticed he read the SAME page every day! He had someone else read it to him and he memorized it, over and over, and pretended to read it!

            And then you know better than to let anything be more than an arms length from your side, otherwise they will take it because it has been “abandoned”. And they HATE getting caught in a lie by an “infidel”, lol!

            The parking thing was easy, I always found a way as to make it “unclean”.

            So where over there were you?

          • Doug

            Religion makes people act stupidly.

          • Tony Marcus

            Think on this: The places you experienced what you describe above are nations that have enshrined a national religion. The reason the founding fathers of the USA made it clear that there was to be separation of church and state was to avoid this sort of nonsense.

          • lildebrarae

            Please post the comment that I wrote where I supported a Muslim family being thrown out of the Empire State Bldg for praying?

            I’m waiting for your ‘proof’ that I as a Constitutional Conservative supported denying ‘any one’ their religious freedoms.

          • Eric G

            You will never see that happen from Sub-Goatz or any of his ilk. Their ability to have selective memory is astounding. I have also called them to task to provide a direct quote of mine when they go on the offensive, and am still waiting for it to happen. Don’t you love how they will be the first to defend individual liberty and freedom, except when it does not agree with their views? I have realized they are a complete waste of time.

          • LittleRoot_48

            The muslim family needs to take it up with the government which is the one that has a problem with praying in a public place. I don’t recall any Christians complaining about it. We’re too busy trying to defend our own right to do so.

          • lildebrarae

            So as with SubcommandanteGoetz, you say ‘one thing’ about Christians never complaining about it … yet can offer no proof to that affect.

            BTW I’m Jewish not Christian.

          • Mac

            This is the template for imposing Islam on the public square (or a top ten target of jihadists). This public prayer on the observation deck of the Emprie State Building was a provocation. It had nothing to do with piety or religiosity. It is political and supremacist. Were they facing Mecca or Ground Zero?

            You don’t see this in Muslim countries. They can make up a prayer at any time. They go to the mosque or stay at home to pray. There are no prayer breaks in Iran and Dubai at workplaces. No prayers on the streets. It is a direct act of defiance against the host culture. It is a prelude to conquest according to Islamic texts. They always prayed in front of their enemy’s gates before they invaded.

          • HonestToAtee

            Exactly right!

          • Tony Marcus

            What utter bigoted balderdash.

          • Eric G

            The hypocrisy exhibited by Sub-Goatz, EliseR, and others has saturated this page, and you certainly won’t get any examples of them having personally experienced Muslim prayer customs and practices (and if they do, please enlighten us). Always theory and hypotheticals with them, which makes it easy. I’m sure the next argument you will get will be they will take you to task about your pointing out Iran and Dubai. I can see it now: “But in America, we have the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution.” Which works great for anything un-Christian, unless you happen to be a 5 year old girl in a public school.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            It wasn’t “Christians,” that flew planes into the World Trade Center buildings killing 3,000+ Americans!

          • Tony Marcus

            Correct, “Combat Veteran Seabee”. It was, however, Christians who rained death on hundreds of thousands of (almost entirely Muslim) Iraqis, conveniently ignoring the fact that they had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the attack you speak of.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            Ah, the typical answer, but it wasn’t a Christian either that gassed the Kurds, that bombed the embassy in nairobi and mumbai, and it isn’t christian’s killing by suicide the multitude of muslims that are innocents in their own religious battle for supremacy, or do you ignore that also!

          • Tony Marcus

            I’m ignoring nothing. Saddam Hussein was a murderous bastard. But, here we are about half a million
            dead people later, and we have an Iraqi government that’s pretty much as venal as the one we kicked out, one that’s conspiring with Iran to bring weapons into Syria to prop up the equally murderous Assad regime. To the best of my knowledge (and from your last message, it seems to be considerably better than yours) Iraqis had nothing to do with bombing our embassies in Nairobi or Mumbai either. There are plenty of dangerous fundamentalist Muslims. There are, however, far more peaceful Muslims than warlike ones. So, are you saying that the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis deserved to die because some other people of their faith bombed our embassy? By that reckoning, as Christians were the main people killing the innocent Iraqis along with the ones fighting for their country, does that mean that any Muslim would be justified killing any Christian? That’s just insane, but that seems to be the logic that you’re using.

          • Brian Pickell

            And Muslims don’t bomb Abortion Clinics. I fail to see your point.

          • Steve Harmon

            Really? A five year old kid being bullied by an authority figure? Where’s the equivalence?

          • HonestToAtee

            The equivalence would be the cafeteria spies who took a 5 y/o’s bagged lunch 2 years ago because Michelle Obama said it wasn’t healthy enough. This is why we must end the Dept of Ed and flex the 10th Amendment rights muscle against this Commie Fed Govt!

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            Not really, just end moochie! She doesn’t have a degree in nutrition, hell, she doesn’t even have a law license anymore! hehehehehehe

          • Steve Harmon

            Amen Brother, 100% right. BTW, from the avatar, looks like I owe you a thank you for your service to our Country, Thank you!

          • HonestToAtee

            Steve the pic is of Navy Seal Aaron Vaughn who died on Extortion17 and whose Parents I know. This Hero along with the rest of his Brothers were Betrayed by a faker CIC. These men were set up. I could never hold a candle to the true steel these Wariors are cut from. God bless our War Fighters and may God please bring them a worthy CIC.

          • Steve Harmon

            Thanks Honest, God bless his soul.

        • Donald Higdon

          Regardless of what her job is, the woman is an a$$hole

          • MSG L

            Donald, Come on down, WE have a Winner!

        • Combat Veteran Seabee

          Your point is? To a 5yr. old in school, everybody is a “Teacher,” in their mind!
          My question is this to you, How is this teaching this child? It is teaching blatant persecution, thats all it is teaching!
          The 1st Amendment affirms our right to pray, it says paraphrased, Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion, and is only meant to affirm that the governmemnt cannot, and will not appoint a state sanctioned religion as a state religion!
          Praying is a form of faith, and faith IS NOT religion!

          • Trythis Last

            Have the parents notified the school?

          • Helga Stintzcum

            combat Veteran Seabee,…..very well said!….This is absolutely outrageous! I would sue that school!…So many people confuse “Freedom OF Religion” with “Freedom FROM Religion”

          • homer1057

            Amen shipmate!! Good hit!!!

          • torr10

            Do you often go off on people needlessly or did you lose some of your ability to read while you were in combat?

          • Watchman on the Wall

            Get lost troll.

            Anyone who protects any adult who bullies and intimidates an innocent 5 year old deserves to be exposed and revealed for the wicked and evil person he or she is and removed from impressionable young children immediately, is equally sick, depraved and evil.

          • roadwarrior

            So, if it was a lunch lady, she was out of her realm of authority here. If it was a teachers, she was wrong, she be reprimanded. I’m guessing that of the 50 million+ students in public school, those who chose to pray on their own time or during the moment of silence were allowed. You folks, at Bizpac’s urging, get your knickers in a knot over every perceived slight and start ranting, foaming and predictably bring Obama into it.. It is not the end of Christianity as you know it. That is self-inflicted as you are alienating the young.

          • linreis

            oh, contraire, roadie…remember back when the ten commandments were ok at school? remember when they were proudly shown in most of the public buildings? remember when a Nativity scene was part of Christmas…(now its called winter solstice) because Christian stuff is unacceptable…little by little the Christianity as we once knew it is disappearing…and its certainly not self inflicted.
            If you open your glazed over eyes, you’ll see the horror of a once proud country losing its rights as well.

          • roadwarrior

            Matthew 6:5 and 6.6–And when thou prayest,
            thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing
            in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of
            men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy
            closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in
            secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. “remember back when the ten commandments were ok at school? ” I went to public school in the 70′s and 80′s and that was never the case. Moreover, many religious “norms” In God We Trust, and “under God” int he pledge were later additions. The fact is, apparently much to your dismay, the country is changing and while not a minority, Christians are not he only game in town and non-affiliates are on the rise.

          • linreis

            do some history research roadie…go back into the 50 and 60s…
            the Christian religion is not the only game in town as you put it. I agree with that…the country was based on that freedom! Does that mean there isn’t room for all, and because those ‘rising’ non-affiliates are rising, does that mean Christianity must fall? I’m all for change, but lets keep the good stuff don’t you think?

          • Tony Marcus

            Remember when uppity black folks got lynched and the government stood idly by and watched? Those elected officials, who no doubt considered themselves good Christians, felt that was just fine. We’ve (hopefully) all come to our senses about that. Displays of ANY religion by civic authorities are contrary to our Constitution. The fact that many cities allowed them to stand doesn’t change that fact. When the US was almost 100% Christian (except for some pesky Jews…heck, let’s lynch a few of them too!) nobody seemed to make a fuss about it. As we’ve become a more diverse nation, the more enlightened among us realize that favoring ANY particular faith goes against what the founding fathers intended. This in no way impacts any citizen’s right to worship as they choose. If this little girl’s story is accurate, the employee should be warned to never do that again. If the principal, however, were to go on the PA system at lunch and lead a Christian prayer, that would be even worse, as it’s a public employee forcing HIS particular faith upon others.

          • linreis

            lynching black people? why are you blaming the government? how about the morals of those bystanders? you think the government should tie your shoes and tell you what cereal to eat in the AM? BTW that government was democratic. the Republicans were the side fighting for the blacks as they are now, trying to get them to see their potential, instead of looking to the government to give them what the government thinks they deserve…
            the Constitution did make provisions for the protection of faith, all faiths, from the government…NOT the other way around…I’d say the Constitution had this little girl in mind when the founding fathers penned it.

          • Tony Marcus

            Are you aware that government (both Republicans & Democrats) were unwilling to pass an anti-lynching law all the way up until LBJ pushed the Civil Rights act through congress in the 1960s? It’s laughable to me that today’s GOP should claim the mantle of Lincoln’s party. There is NO resemblance between today’s Republicans and those who instituted reconstruction. When the GOP sold out southern blacks in order to win the presidential election of 1880, that great mass of citizens were disenfranchised. The legacy of reconstruction meant that basically you had to be a Democrat to be elected in the “solid south”. You also had to be a racist. The most vicious racists of that period DID belong to the Democratic party, though the Republicans weren’t far behind them. With Johnson’ civil rights act, the solid south fractured. With Reagan’s southern strategy, pretty much all of the former Democrats in the deep south became Republicans. The spectacle of the current GOP hypocrites invoking the ghost of Lincoln (or even of Teddy Roosevelt) would be funny if it weren’t so sad. As to your last point, I’ve stated before that, assuming this girl’s story is true, she’s definitely in the right, though the promulgation of the story is mystifying. Why wouldn’t the parents just go to school and make sure that, whoever the offending official was, they would never do such a thing again? Perhaps because it was more important to them to try and make some political gain out of what sounds like a small minded and misguided action by one low level employee at one school.

          • Watchman on the Wall

            That’s not how YHWH sees the truth and He controls every thought, word and deed done by everyone on the planet. You’re simply being disingenuous and dishonest as an agent of the devil to approve of that which the wicked do to intimidate young children. It is evil to the core and reveals s sick and depraved character that ought to get that luck lady barred from ever setting foot in another school for life.

            True Biblical Christianity (as opposed to all forms of organized religion which are false and apostate today) is fully alive but under an all-out assault from the devil and his army of demon-infested slaves who harbor a deep seated rebellious spirit and hatred for all that YHWH and Yahushua represent: that which is good, noble, righteous, holy, pure, heroic, protective. This too is foretold in end times Bible prophecy which is being fulfilled all around us as we live through the great tribulation foretold in Daniel 12 and Matthew 24. One year down; 2 1/2 more to go and then the jig is up.

            Public schools are nothing more than brain washing, propaganda and indoctrination centers today and anyone with any integrity and honesty knows this. Is it any surprise that the young are deeply brain washed, deceived and lost and have no clue what the truth is? Not in the least. If they are alienated from the one true God, it is because God created them that way for their day of destruction. This is what the Bible says. Dismiss it at your peril. it really doesn’t matter; from your post here, it is quite clear that you number among God’s non-elect, His spiritual goats, created by God for your day of destruction in 2 1/2 short years. Dwell on that truth for a moment…

          • cazie

            The left likes to ridicule all who don’t agree with them. Show some respect-or did your folks not teach you that principle? If you don’t like the conservative conversation-why don’t you move on to the Huff. Post or an MSNBC site.

          • Tony Marcus

            As for me personally, I only like to ridicule the ridiculous. I would deplore a small child being told to not engage in private prayer, whether it be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or whatever. I trust that those of you voicing their outrage at this story will stand with me when a Muslim child is similarly chastised, right?

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            Just telling it like it is fool!

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            Needlessly? What a joke you are.

          • HonestToAtee

            Watch out tough guy!

          • MSG L

            I will go with you Mate,

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            Thanks, now we just need the rest of America to go and this crap would cease forthwith!

          • HonestToAtee

            Not only that, public schools are bending over backwards to allow Muslums prayer in the Public forum all the while shutting up Christians, same in the Military, this is what we get with a Muslum in the WH!

          • Tony Marcus

            Great. I look forward to you also standing up for those of different religious persuasions conducting their own private prayers in schools and other public places. I’m pleased that you’ll stand up for free speech of all kinds, not merely that with which you agree….right? Right?

        • Trythis Last

          So…
          Whomever was an agent of the School, and placed the School in violation of that child’s Constitutional rights.

        • lildebrarae

          For once you have it right. Either way it is sad that a kid can’t simply bow her head and say a silent prayer of thanks (with no words) without some one screaming ‘foul’.

        • Myrtle Linder

          I see nothing about a “lunch teacher” What does a “lunch teacher” teach?

          • Doug

            She instructs the others in AntiChristism.

        • Mlm46

          What difference does it make whether it was a teacher, lunch teacher or the janitor? If this child wanted to pray, how does this affect anyone else? If you don’t want to pray, so be it, but for the people that want to, let it be too! Why do you care so much?

          • Doug

            Obviously, you’ve never taught. Janitors run schools.

        • lovinspoonful

          What difference does it make who it was? They were wrong.

        • Ivanno

          This is America land of the free. Freedom of expression or is it not? Who’s running the show here? Commies?

        • LittleRoot_48

          It doesn’t matter who it was. No one should have told this child it “is not good” to pray. Do you think they would DARE to say something similar to a muslim student?

        • George

          They are still the schools representatives and are still in violation of this child’s constitutional rights. Unless they know what they are doing, they had best keep quiet.

        • robbiedobbs

          it doesn’t matter who they are. they are not a teacher as clearly they do not work in a classroom but rather the cafeteria. this girls family shouldn’t care what some waiter says to their kid.

        • Eric Stegner

          ElsieR is against praying to God but is for praying to Barack Obama, HER god.

        • Joseph Heimer

          None of that matters. The fact is that the child’s First Amendment rights were violated by government agent. Christian, Jew, Muslim, doesn’t matter–ALL are Constitutionally protected free speech and religion.

      • Hoppyman50

        They who monitor are teachers.

        • VoiceofReason

          Not necesssarily.

          • Hoppyman50

            You may be right seeing the unions need some members. Yet when I was in school they were teachers.

        • linreis

          technically, every adult is a teacher when you are 5 years old. Shame on the lunch lady, I hope she LEARNS a lesson herself.

    • VoiceofReason

      Wow. Intelligence level on this board isn’t very high.

      • sarthurk

        You just had to open your mouth, didn’t you?

        • Trythis Last

          Have the parents notified the school? Yet

      • Combat Veteran Seabee

        So it went south when you got here?

      • Velda Royce Gauze

        I noticed that too.

    • Doug

      Not a teacher. Pull in your horns.

    • teila

      Sue the school under what grounds? The school isn’t even remotely vicariously liable for anything the lunch lady did unless the lady has done such ridiculous stuff in the past that would legally put the school “on notice” about her behavior or her propensity to behave in such a manner… people are so quick to scream “sue!” when in this case (based only on what was written in the article) the school hasn’t done anything wrong.
      … now if they don’t get the “lunch lady” on the good foot and tell her that she’s butting her nose where it doesn’t belong, and she does the same to other students, THEN the school is putting itself into the line of fire. Until then, tough cookies for the parents.
      I do agree with homeschooling, as it allows a parent to by-pass their children having to deal with, or worse, be subjected to the rationale of, stupid people at the school house.

    • Monika Woods

      No, not all schools, and not all people. A lunch lady is also not a teacher. Don’t sue the school, get involved, and reach out. We are called to change the world, we are called to reach the lost. We can’t do it if we attack them.

    • flodnar

      Home schooling let’s the bullies win. The school board should address the violation of the First Amendment.

    • robbiedobbs

      it was a LUNCH LADY. not a teacher. Huge difference.

    • JadedCynic77

      You poor gullible lot. This has already been exposed as a fake. Google: “Fox’s Starnes Embarrasses Himself With Another Bogus Culture War Horror Story.” The uploader is an employee of some nut trying to sell books about attacks on Christian values. He has a history of making these things up. These slimebags used their own kid to further the agenda of their lunatic boss.

  • Liberty Lover

    Parents trying to undo the damage caused by these people. Home school this child if at all possible.

    • OzzWorx

      Sue for BIG money!

  • Gunny56

    Next time you do a video tell the drummer to take a break while the camera is rolling.

    • EliseR

      The drumming thing is weird. I think the parents are trying to get publicity for something and they want everyone to know they have another kid. Why would you put an underage kid on public display and have another kid drumming in the background?

      • Combat Veteran Seabee

        Why do you vote for a boy king? Why do yuo gush and put your liberalism on display? It’s make a point, and it is a basic tennent of Freedom, something you obviously know nothing about!
        How better to make a popint than with the affected children? Can I remind you of oblowhole and his many W.H. photo ops with children? You are a hypocrit, or just ignorant. (last word was to be nice!)

      • cazie

        Dah…maybe the other child was practicing as usual. Must there be complete silence? The parents wanted the facts to come from the child. Elise-as I stated to torr10…maybe you should go be with your own kind. You have no tolerance for equality or free speech unless it is in lockstep with your beliefs.

        • Combat Veteran Seabee

          Way to go cazie! That has to hurt!

  • EliseR

    Yeah, and where is the school’s side to this story? What is the name of the lunch lady and what does she have to say about the incident? It’s easy to slap a video online of your kid saying whatever you want them to, but it’s harder to back up what the kids says with facts.

    There is no law that says kids can not pray to themselves in school.

    • BCS Blues

      Always got to be a naysayer among us..You must be a dem!

      • roadwarrior

        She may well be a “dem”. Are dissenting voices not allowed? That sounds like “Muslum” BS.

    • Peter Hornbeck

      are you calling the parents liars ??

      • EliseR

        I didn’t call anyone a liar (yet). But there is very little verifiable information here. What school is it? Who told the girl she couldn’t pray? Did the parents call the school and try to figure out what happened before they publicly accused the lunch teacher of doing something wrong? Surely other kids say the incident. Did the parents bring the matter up with the parents of the other kids? There are no verifiable facts here.

        • JoeThePimpernel

          I’d believe this little girl long before I’d believe anything a unionized government educrat had to say.

          • EliseR

            That’s pretty much my point. You will believe what you want to believe without even hearing from anyone else who witnessed the event.

          • Mark Steele

            You have a good point EliseR. It could be a misunderstanding, or it could be some incompetent dingbat public school employee.

          • EliseR

            Or the little girl could have been trying to get the other students to pray with her. Or the parents could have made the whole thing up. Or the lunch teacher could have been a parent volunteer who did not know it’s fine for kids to pray. There are lots of unknowns in this scenario.

          • Kenneth Clark

            They are obviously not democratic progressives EliseR, whom will say anything to try to convince others that their sickness is a good thing.

          • SickOf BeingCoddled

            and we all spend our time here making no positive difference and robbing our selves of time we could be using to educate our fellow citizens to the principles and truth of the constitution

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            Why so much supposition? Try working only within what YOU Know! Just like the rest of us!

          • evste

            Or the little girl might be telling the whole truth and I wouldn’t know why anyone would doubt that would take place

          • MSG L

            Typical of you to blame the victim. The kids fault, the Mothers fault, I am surprised you did not say it was Bush’s fault. The SCHOOL is at fault.

          • Mlm46

            The biggest unknown here is where your brains and intelligence are! Why do you keep harping on these stories? Trying to prove a point? The only point you prove is how biased and one sided you are on anything that is reported on here! Not very intelligent, is it?

          • Eric G

            Just like when she watches MSNBC!

          • Jerry

            Is she the one who watches that station?

          • Lance Brown

            Why don’t you take this same approach when a Conservative has been accused of something?

          • fancyschmancy58

            Um because it’s usually not a con that does this sort of bs. Show us one that has and we will be glad to give them hell.

          • linreis

            the dems sure haven’t had a good day today, have the,y fancy?

          • roadwarrior
          • roadwarrior

            So there is the recent story in Louisiana I posted a link to or last year’s about an atheist student bullied in a public school in Rhode Island.

          • Melissa Cohagen

            Are you kidding? What about the Conservative politician who was against Pro-Choice but it was discovered that he got his MISTRESS a secret abortion! Two for One!! Crickets chirping???

          • Eric G

            That will never happen. She has injected so much “supposing” that perhaps, just suppose, the lady who took her to task disappeared into a black hole and therefore the school’s side of the story can’t be heard, and what a travesty of justice that is.

          • Mark Hatzi

            so a 5 yr old is just going to pull this out of the air?? hmmm, about like your education when it comes to kids

          • EliseR

            Really, you’ve never seen a 5-year-old make stuff up? My kid told me one of he friends from preschool was an alien from Mars. Made up a whole backstory on the guy. You never met a kid with an imaginary friend? Or one who exaggerated the facts of an event?

          • Mark Hatzi

            big difference, making something up or a lie. sorry you have no idea as the difference.

          • Kenneth Clark

            Do you mean like Obama does?

          • Doug

            Good zinger Kenny.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            I had an imaginary dog once when I was little, but a far cry from knowing that I was to pray, and PRAY I DID! From nightly prayers to Foxhole Praying, and I pray silently in my mind daily, because of faith, not a religion!
            Get over yourself! You and the rest of humanity, myself included, isn’t even the atomic weight of an electron in the grand scheme of this Universe! Did you know that the collective weight of all the ants on earth dwarf the weight of the human population? See, we are miniscule in nature, and new comers also, so be careful EliseR.

          • Doug

            I had an imaginary girlfriend. At least that’s what I told my wife when she found out.

          • Mlm46

            That’s your excuse? Take a break, you are getting more and more ridiculous with your stupid posts. Take a vacation, please!

          • roadwarrior

            Elise makes perfectly reasonable assertions, where is she ridiculous?

          • golftilidrop

            Sort of like the leftist’s gave Zimmerman about being beaten to death?

          • sarthurk

            Excuse me, your honor, but who are you to judge?

          • knowsbolos

            EliseR…what rock have been living under for the past 4 or 5 years…as the “attacks” on kids who believe in God escalate in our Public schools Maybe you would like to research THIS ONE:http://christiannews.net/2014/03/24/public-school-teacher-allegedly-rejects-8-year-olds-paper-for-citing-jesus-as-her-hero/

          • http://www.facebook.com/aemoreira81 aemoreira81

            At least there, you have documentation…a rejected paper with the reason for the rejection (pending evidence that that is the teacher’s handwriting). However, that could also be the parent’s handwriting. One may need writing samples to verify this.

          • Combat Veteran Seabee

            So you are saying that since you didn’t witness the event, we must accept YOUR assumptions and yours alone?
            You blew your credibility by challenging a 5 yr. old, don’t challenge me, it would be most unfortunate for you!

          • Tec Sg Beatty

            Go get her, squid! This wingwiper has your back!

          • MSG L

            Did you really just say that? You have described yourself perfectly and you prove it every time you post.

          • EliseR

            And yet you haven’t even heard an explanation from anyone else involved in the story. How do you know who to believe when you only know one side of the story?

          • Eric G

            Love how EliseR suddenly wants to ask a multitude of questions and get to the bottom of this issue while making sure all sides are heard and no stone is left unturned. Funny, I didn’t read any of her posts requesting a similar investigation when talking about Benghazi where four Americans were killed. Shows us where her priorities are.

          • roadwarrior

            Apparently, you don’t spend much time around children…or “educrats?”

          • JoeThePimpernel

            I know that it’s time to replace government schools with something that actually results in public education.

            The current education bureaucracy is good at one thing, and one thing only… demanding more and more tax money for the same dismal result.

            http://i.imgur.com/psvqYgr.png

            Einstein said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

            Instead of handing the money over to the teachers, we need to give vouchers to students and they get to go to any school they want.

          • roadwarrior

            And you do know that many States are not unionized.

          • JoeThePimpernel

            They’re still government bureaucrats, first and foremost.

            Common core is bureaucracy gone wild.

        • the game

          why do you need to know any information at all?Its for the parents & school at this time!

          • EliseR

            You need to know both sides of the story before you go condemning the lunch teacher.

          • linreis

            funny to see YOU say that about hearing ‘both sides of the story’. You usually don’t bother with finding the truth from two sides.

          • EliseR

            Wrong again.

          • linreis

            LOL. yeah, someone is wrong all the time…but not YOU…you are NEVER wrong when you rant and troll are you….

          • Eric G

            HOLY SMOKES!!!!! EliseR, if you cannot see the hypocrisy you are exhibiting by pounding home your premise of knowing both sides of a story, then it is truly an effort in futility attempting to have any type of informed, educated, and factual debate. Your posts concerning any event or action that makes the Repubs look bad have NEVER put forth this argument with such fervor. Please direct me to anything you have written calling Lois Lerner to task for invoking the 5th and refusing to testify. Where was this newfound spirit of getting to the bottom of something by gathering as much information as possible?

          • Mlm46

            We are wasting too much time on this troll! She/he/it has nothing constructive to say, so let’s just ignore this idiot!

          • Eric G

            Listen, I am totally with you. Whenever I respond to an EliseR comment (or one of her cohorts), I always cut and paste their post and then write my response as a new comment. In this case, she was so off the wall with hypocrisy that I couldn’t resist a direct response. Have you seen how two of her minions have suggested I need reading comprehension classes? I guess in their world, if one sees the truth and calls out the hypocrite, they must be uneducated (which also means not having been indoctrinated by the liberal educational system).

          • Eric G

            Yes, I posed a couple of pretty simple questions to another member of her clan. The response was anything but answer them. These people truly are a waste of time.

          • Mlm46

            Trolls have nothing better to do! This is a minor story and she/he/it wants to make a big deal out of it. This person is on no consequence!

        • sybilll

          If her name and school were published, the Freedom From Religion people would be at the school, and the leftwing radicals would be at the parent’s door.

        • Combat Veteran Seabee

          Just like oblowholes background, very little “verifiable information,” or facts! Now go away!

        • Mlm46

          You are getting much too involved in everything that doesn’t go along with your agenda! It’s hard to take you seriously with your nit picking all the time! Give it a rest, EliseR, you are not making anyone change.

    • Mike Hobgood

      REALLY ELISE?If that had been a Muslim praying that would have called for quiet till they finished…Are you one of the Union Muslim Teachers?

      • EliseR

        Muslims can pray quietly in public schools, just like anyone else.

        • Kimberly Stafford Warne

          Apparently NOT like Christians hence the basis for this post which of course you don’t believe because unlike the liberal agenda (which you obviously blindly believe, this little girl is an evil bible thumping liar. Elise, when we Google “what is wrong with this Country”, your pic comes up!

          • EliseR

            There is no law saying you can not pray in public schools. You can’t make other people pray, but you can pray to yourself. Before you call anyone a liar, find a law that prohibits anyone from praying to themselves in a public school.

          • momoseven

            I’m wondering how a five year old can “make” someone else pray?

          • linreis

            Its not a law, but it does happen…just because you are living in your Pollyanna liberal world doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot of BS happening…here is just one instance:

            http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/christian-student-denied-diploma-24583/

          • http://www.facebook.com/aemoreira81 aemoreira81

            Poor example. if school management permits a student to deviate from already approved speech, how do you tell the next student no? You are advocating a slippery slope.

          • linreis

            I’m not sure I understand your comment.

        • Lance Brown

          Try to stay on point Elise. Everyone knows it’s legal. You are not offering ground breaking news. It appears her rights were violated. In typical Liberal, nut job fashion; you demand additional facts. You only demand this type of action when it’s an Atheist being accused. You would never take this approach if it were a Christian being accused. You speak from both sides of your mouth.

          • EliseR

            No one knows if her rights were violated because no one knows WHERE this happened, WHO told her not to pray, and if anyone else can verify what the girl said. You are condemning someone based on the accusations of a 5-year-old and nothing more. We don’t condemn people based only on accusations of ANYONE, without any other proof. There is more than one side to every story and you only know one side.

          • Kenneth Clark

            “We don’t condemn people based only on accusations of any one,”

            REALLY!!!

        • wvweightgs

          Whey they prey? if that is what you want to call it, they make quite a lot of noise, with the up and down movements, the chants they make, that is not being quite, in my book.

          • fancyschmancy58

            Well then WV you obviously do not know how to pray… infact you can’t spell pray. Answers that question.

        • the game

          no they cant,its not a one way street!

      • Combat Veteran Seabee

        Darn, I wanted to bring my prayer rug and set up shop in that lunchroom!

      • Doug

        Painting with a broad brush.

    • Colonoscopy

      For left-wing democrats, it’s “chic” to lie. From the very top on down.

      • Doug

        Another broad brush.

        • Colonoscopy

          Broad…you must be talking about Hillary.

    • wvweightgs

      I do not think this is something a 5 year old would lie about. Some one like you elise, I would say yes. Children do not lie, until adults?????teach them how to by the way.

      • EliseR

        Really, you never met a kid with an imaginary friend? Young children lie all the time. They do not know the difference between a fact and something they make up.

        • linreis

          imagination is not lying. gawd Elise. Cant you come up with somewhere else to troll.

        • Kenneth Clark

          Those whom grow up with “imaginary friends” tend to be the ones like the Newtown shooter whom was also a progressive democrat.

          This little girl doesn’t have an imaginary friend she was talking to before being so rudely interrupted by the socialist lunch lady. She has a real God that she was simply giving thanks to for her food.

    • Terry Ford

      You must be a piece of crap socialist.

      • EliseR

        Because only socialists want to find out the facts of a situation before passing judgement?

        • linreis

          socialists have no idea of ‘fact’. If they had their way about this the child would be taken away from the parents and brought up in stepford world.

          • EliseR

            Oh please, no one wants to take this child away from her parents. You are blathering.

          • butterflyinoh

            Tell that to the parents from Massachusettes whose daughter was taken from them by the state because of a young doctor that had only seen her 1 time and told her parents that her family doctor misdiagnosed her. This COULD happen with the socialist idiots in government today.

          • Jerry

            You pinks have done it before.

        • Kenneth Clark

          The Kool aid must be exceptionally strong today.

    • Jerry

      Are you saying a 5 year old was making it up.

    • SickOf BeingCoddled

      that is true and that is why I think these situations are so overblown. The “public” is being trained to believe that there is a law against praying in school/ There is NOT . Having this issue- prayer- be a conflict is just one more way for us to be against each other, think the issue is bigger than us, and calling for Government to make a ruling. We have to stop thinking that Government is the answer. Government is the problem. SELF GOVERNMENT is the answer. see my suggestion above.

    • Combat Veteran Seabee

      You should know, as liberals NEVER let facts get in the way!

  • Vienna McCracken

    Home school is the best! You will be rewarded! It’s not easy, but God will be pleased and your children will get a terrific education! We’ve home
    schooled since our kids were in fourth grade and one is now 15 and our son, who experiences Down syndrome is 17. Best decision we ever made.

    • DeadMessenger

      Yes! I homeschooled after having numerous problems with psychotic school authorities (ohhh…the stories I could tell), and I worked a full time job while I did it. It was all much, much easier and cheaper than you’d think. Best decision I ever made, and plus, I got to teach creationism instead of evolution!

      • Doug

        See. Nobody needs to go to regular school.

  • BCS Blues

    I am so thankful that we live in a small town in Texas and our kids can pray at school anytime! I pray constantly that we can turn all this around someday and all schools will be Godly and patriotic. If some don’t like it just turn your head and don’t participate!

  • Gale Wilson

    This is Gale husband, I am VN Vet. and that child is right and has the right to PRAY any time and any where and NO ONE has the right to stop her or tell her it is WRONG ! That school must be run by ATHEiST and I have seen many of them convert when their legs are blown off and the first thing that comes out of their mouth is O’GOD HELP ME !! Sounds like this school needs a good cleaning out and SUED !!!

    • linreis

      they say there are no atheists in fox holes. Thanks for your service, and your comment.

    • Doug

      I always invoke God’s name during sex.

  • CHARLES

    Would not do for one to tell my grand kids not to pray!!!!

  • CHARLES

    I , would not send my dog to a public school,

  • JoeThePimpernel

    Common Core says praying is bad.