Rick Perry shaken up by Obama’s disturbing threat to governors in meeting

Texas Gov. Rick Perry revealed a disturbing threat coming from the White House directed at several governors — Republican and Democrat alike.

“I was a bit troubled today by the tone of the president,” he began, speaking at the Republican Governors Association Feb. 24.

Perry was describing a meeting at the White House earlier that day between several governors and President Obama.

“When you have governors, and we all compete against each other — we are the laboratories of innovation — and for the President of the United States to look Democrat and Republican governors in the eye and say, ‘I do not trust you to make decisions in your state about issues of education, about transportation infrastructure,’ — and that is really troubling,” he said.

Perry expressed his own fears regarding Environmental Protection Agency restrictions choking off America’s energy production and a possible reduction in his state’s national guard.

“As a matter of fact, he [Obama] said at that meeting, he said, ‘If I hear any of you pushing back, making statements about Washington spends too much money, you’ll hear from me,” he said, adding, “I’m highly offended by that.”

Watch Perry’s chilling revelation below.

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About Michael Dorstewitz

Mike has been with BizPac Review almost from the beginning. Follow him on Twitter at @MikeBPR.

  • Rich Holland

    Obama is a fkn clown!

    • Cheri’

      He may be a clown but he is a dangerous clown that is gettng away with everything he is pulling. So I would stop calling him names and start finding out what you can actually DO to get his stupid ass out of our Whitehouse!!!

      • Paulita Gilberto

        Yeah Rich! “Fkn clown,” wrong, “stupid ass,” right! Sheeeeesh.

      • morgus

        Cheri, he’s as dangerous as the people let him be.

        • Robert Newcomb

          Waiting til we get control of both houses…then he will be getting prison meals…

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Man that’s going to be a long wait. Doubt you’ll see it in your lifetime.

          • Christy Oestereich Schuld

            Right Frank, swinging from a tree on the front lawn of the White House is more likely.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Your parents must be proud of you.

          • Carol Chadbourne

            What in the world did she post…it’s gone??!!

          • Marty Butler

            I agree

          • hadenough

            Well folks, from here on people got way off base and talk about religions..Really people?. Put up a post about religion and go to it all you knowledgeable folks,.no that won’t work. then they will talk about the shape OUR country is in. As Mencia would say do ta do..

          • LittleRoot_48

            It doesn’t matter. He’ll get the “justice” he deserves when he comes face to face with his Creator on Judgement Day.

          • mogul264

            Justice comes in different forms, not always a nice one!

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            So will those Christians who know the Word but do the opposite of Romans 13.

          • jimbodc1

            So Lynne, you think we should submit to Government no matter what?

          • Bryan

            Does Obama even believe in God and what this country was originally founded on?

          • Anon

            You do realize that many of the founding fathers were not believers correct? This state was not founded on Christian beliefs. It just so happens that a lot of Christians live here.

          • Kiki

            Then please tell us how Gods name is on everything that this country was built on?

          • mikebank

            Freedom of all Citizens.

          • ckandersen

            Yes, freedom for all citizens. But based on the moral imperatives of the Christian faith.

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            Hooch Sezs–If you do not like Christian America then you should leave. BARK

          • Jimmy Ledkins

            Maybe you should leave. .. There are more religions out there besides the Christian faith. … If you should know

          • jillyneutron

            You want to live in a theocracy then go move to the Middle East. Religion is rapidly on the decline in the U.S. and it can’t happen soon enough for me.

            I am a decent person and I do it without the fear of any god.

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            You are a christian or a satanist. There is no other choices. The blood moons start in May and you will see the mighty hand of GOD. The second is in Sept. and two more in 2015. Only God can do that.

          • wolfendenpackleader

            Wow. I feel sorry for you. My religion has been around over 6 times longer than yours and it is not Satanism or Christianity. I have no need to fear my spiritual entities as you Christians do. Why do you fear your God. Your claim of Christianity, is it really the truth or are you merely trying save yourself out of fear of great suffering and agony for eternity ? Because you should know that if you fear something, you cannot trust it and if you cannot trust it, you cannot love it. Works on real or imaginary beings.

            P.S. I have no need to go around proselytizing others to MY beliefs systems either.

          • ScarletPimpernil

            Your understanding of fear in the sense it is used in the Bible may be amiss.

            A child loves his or her parent and is inclined to fears displeasing either parent.

          • disqus_PXzgTV7lWI

            Sorry… We are all born atheist scientists… it is only your control-religion that dumbs-down the collective intelligence of the masses… Your theory will be once again proven laughable as everything else you believe has, over, and over, and over… Enjoy your blissful denial… alone please!

          • dar

            just because you choose not to believe does not make you right.

          • disqus_PXzgTV7lWI

            So… Believing in something completely inplausable, written by the hugely ignorant to control the masses is right?

          • wolfendenpackleader

            Harley hooch, haul you ass back to the land of your ancestors where you belong. Its been over 500 years WE WANT OUR LAND BACK. From the First Nations People, aka Indians.

          • disqus_PXzgTV7lWI

            And the Native American population suggest that YOU should leave, and take your fake mythology with you!

          • Tara

            HarleyHooch – if you are christian, maybe you should keep it in your church, not out in public.

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            This is Christian America. Christians founded America with Gods Blessing.

          • Jan

            Not according to the 1st amendment Tara! It says nothing about freedom from religion. Exactly the opposite. It clearly states that the government shall not making any laws preventing the free practice of religion. All that talk about separation of church & state is not in there either. That was made of whole cloth by some liberal judges.

          • disqus_PXzgTV7lWI

            Sorry… no such thing.

          • Robert Whitlow

            Kiki: Please do just a little research concerning when the words “In God We Trust was placed on everything. Our national Motto was E PULRIBUS UNUM until 1957, was added to the Pledge in 1954, In God We Trust added to money 1957 (although engraved on a few coins during the Civil War). Truth is that most of the God references that people attribute to the founders did not occur until the cold war eara of the 1950′s as a way of differentiating the USA from “those Godless Communists” in the USSR.

          • KellyCraig

            I hate to admit it, but God’s name is not “God.” His son made his name manifest and, as it was written, there are many gods, but only one true god.

          • Robert Whitlow

            Kelly you are correct that God’s name is not God. His name is Yahweh. The Jehovas witnesses utilize a bad translation. As for one true God, it is more akin to one supreme God. Which, by the way is a more recent belief as early Hebrew was a poly theist religion.

          • ckandersen

            What is “early Hebrew”? Abram was a semite from the east. After he traveled to what is now Israel he was selected by Yahweh to be the progenitor of the Jewish people, under a covenant with Yahweh, and renamed Abraham.

          • Robert Whitlow

            Early Hebrew is the Jewish religion for a large portion of its existence. This is not doubted by any person with any factual knowledge of the Judeo Christian faith. It is only taken as offensive to those with very little understanding of where their religion came from. Ask your minister about the polytheism of the old testament. Just for the sake of argument I will direct your attention to Genesis I ” Let US make man in OUR image” It is changed in Genesis II. Or “Thou shall have no other GODS before me” Gods, plural.

          • sylviacroft

            The Trinity is what you are referring to and it is just a matter of understanding for you to think that is poly theism. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and His ways than our ways. We don’t understand everything He does, but the three are ONE god.

          • debs2005

            Many don’t understand the Trinity. An easy way to understand it is water can either be solid (ice) liguid or steam

          • Dennis

            Excellent analogy Debs. I have used that one myself several times.

          • Aochoa

            Yes, an excellent analogy but we are not supposed to understand God. God is a mystery to us for how can we understand that God is everywhere at once? Hey, we don’t even understand His Universe that He created along with His Earth, etc.

          • Aochoa

            How can anyone understand the Trinity? How can anyone understand that God (the Holy Spirit) came down from Heaven to “impregnate” the Virgin Mary so that He (God) could be born Man or as our Lord Jesus Christ? I can only accept that based on faith.

          • Dennis

            Gods is plural as in gods are plural, not capitalized. Which is to say that men will make many things into their god and turn away from the One True God whose name is Yahweh. He is the Creator.

          • awenger

            Read John Chapter one and pay particular attention to verses 1-3 and verse 14. Yes, Yahweh was the special personal name for God, byt he was also referenced as ‘El’ …a generic for God, and he was also called Elohim which itself is a plural name for God, El Shaddai (God Almighty), Elyon, and other varieties of the name ‘El’. Jesus’ name is basically Y’shua which in translations of the Old Testament is usually rendered ‘Joshua’. The name Jesus came about as a transliteration into Greek that was then Transliterated into english centuries later. The name Y’shua basically is 2 parts: Ya – Shua, meaning Ya (Yahweh) Saves.

          • Ron Roy

            Whatever his name is I’m not impressed with the way he ordered the mass murder of the Cannanites. When Jesus said “If you know me you know the Father” He had to be refering to some other God and not the God of the Old Testsament! Some early Christian sects believed the God of the Old Testament was an evil God.

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            All the people that God ordered put to death were the Fallen Angel Inbreds or just satans childern. HOOCH SEZS–Now you know the truth.

          • BJWILSON

            I am proud of you Harley not many people know why did was done…They think God was cruel but it was to take out the fallen ones to clean the bloodline for Jesus to be born…God Bless

          • wolfendenpackleader

            More heresy Har ?

            And look back to what the Puritans did in Massachusetts. Killing the innocents by lying about them, thus bringing on their deaths.

            Do you really think that everything living thing that God slaughtered was sinful as he claimed ? No, they were not. How do I know ? Because God claimed that even every animal, fish and bird, bug and other living things of non-human origin was evil. Animals are not evil as they do as they were created to do. Trees are not evil, nor are the birds, horses, butterflies. The only perceived is in the minds of men, people.
            And if you think back to the flood, which several other prior civilizations had as well as other things in common with the history of Christianity, ask yourself about INCEST. Because if your God did destroy every living thing on the planet except for Noah, his wife, their 3 sons and their 3 daughters-in-law, there was 6 separate sets of DNA to replace humans on earth and 5 of those 8 people had direct blood related DNA. The only way to repopulate the planet was to interbreed among themselves. After a few generations of doing this, the human species would have died out due to physical and mental defects and even if they had survived, how do you explain the different races of people because the majority of Christians do not believe in evolution and there would only be about 1,800 people on earth today and not over 7 billion.

          • ScarletPimpernil

            Let me remind you of your own words earlier. Not all was done by God, but much was done in his name.

            Reading our posts here leaves me inclined to believe you are not the third perfect man who walked this earth. As such, it must be your religion is defective. Or could it just be the man?

          • Aochoa

            We need to understand that the “Old Testament” or scriptures came from a time when man couldn’t read or write. Such things had not been invented yet. As a matter of fact, man couldn’t even speak at one time. These things were eventually “invented” by man but this happened “many” countless years prior to the development of the “New Testament” which was put together about 150 – 200 years after the Lord was crucified and resurrected.

          • Aochoa

            Matthew 22: 37-39
            The Greatest Commandment
            …37And He said to him, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38″This is the great and foremost commandment. 39″The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’…

          • sylviacroft

            In the earliest writings of the Hebrews they expressed something called the Shema: “Hear, O Israel, the LORD our god is One God, and you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your strength.” That doesn’t sound poly theist to me.

          • Robert Whitlow

            Wow, it must be true, ignorance is bliss. I suppose you believe that Jesus established the Christian church also? I know of NO scholar that believes the early Hebrews did not worship multiple deities, especially since the early writings declare just that. I truly have no problem with intelligent learned and knowledgeable Christians, but I do have a problem understanding those who worship at the alter of ignorance. Even Yahweh instructed his followers to learn. (By the way Jesus instructed his followers to adhere to the teaching of Moses and the law, or commandments in other words that includes the other 603, and stated the HE would establish his church upon his return.)

          • sylviacroft

            “Answer not a fool in his folly.” That’s very good advice. So I will end this hopeless conversation now. You are one who is blinded by his own intellect. But remember: The wisdom of men is foolishness to God.

          • Aochoa

            IMO you are 100% correct in your statement “The wisdom of men is foolishness to God.”

          • Dennis

            Huh? What you said makes absolutely no sense. And I suppose Martin Luther had nothing to do with the Lutheran Church either?
            (I realize the comparison I make is apples and oranges but you should get the point anyway).

          • Aochoa

            God shouldn’t have to make sense to us. After all, that’s the only reason that we need to have faith.

            John 20:29 Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

          • ScarletPimpernil

            Yes, and no. Clearly, he did not want us ignorant of him. Otherwise, all would do well to toss their Bible or whatever.

            If God is all wise and knowing, he would know ignorant men would bastardize his will.

            Certain religions claim Jesus prayed to himself, sits at his own right hand, handed the keys of the kingdom back to himself and so forth. Others believe a less complicated way, Jesus prayed to his father, and so forth.

            Only ignorance, whether by adultery of God’s word failure to consider it could produce the wide array of beliefs we now have.

            Take hell, as an example. Look up Sheol and inquire into the “lake of fire outside the city.”

          • Ted Paine

            the Hebrews did at times worship multiple deities and the Bible is full of examples of what happened to them when they did. (It ain’t pretty) Yahwey as stated is a jealous God and will have no other God(s) before him.

          • Aochoa

            Yes, and as a matter of fact, the Lord Jesus was never a Christian. He was a Jew when He was crucified and when He resurrected as the Holy Spirit. And, like you say, He established His Church upon His return (from His Crucifixion).

          • ScarletPimpernil

            You are correct in that Jesus was not a Christian. Anything to the contrary would be a paradox.

            Jesus said he came to make his father’s name manifest.

          • ScarletPimpernil

            Just a side note regarding your earlier response to my comment:

            I believe you are correct on the matter of how God’s name is pronounced. However, Jesus’ name and those of others mentioned in the Bible also were pronounced far differently than what our best attempts produce. I doubt anyone’s accent could get close to how they were actually pronounced.

            Perhaps more important than how it is pronounced, since any assertion of the propriety of one form over another would be mere speculation, is the matter of clearly identifying him. As such, even the Witnesses, in this day and age, may not be acting any more inappropriately than are those identifying his son as Jesus.

            If I didn’t have anyone to tell me Hesus was pronounced as Jesus, I would pronounce the name like Ben Cartwright did.

          • ivanvivian

            It’s not
            Yahweh either. The best we could pronounce it in English would be YaHUaH. The ‘u’ is an actual double-U and not the way we use the “W” in English. Translated in its simplest form that would be Eternal. Yet, this is not the name he told Moses on a personal basis, which was “Eh Yer Sher, Eh Yer, Eh Yer I Am as I Am, I Am. The Being One. YaHUaH is His name to those Who know of Him, but are not in a relationship with Him, much like a formal last name. Eh Yer, Sher, Eh Yer, Eh Yer is a very personal name like one’s first name, used by friends and family.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Kelly – a lot of people also do not know that the “Allah of Islam” is the God of Abraham. This is why Islam is one of the three Abrahamic faiths, the other two being Judaism and Christianity.

            The difficulty is how does one know that one’s personal faith-based belief HAS TO BE the “one true God”? It IS faith-based belief, after all.

          • ckandersen

            And what of Ismael and his descendants? They do not accept Christ as the Messiah, and are therefore not justified before the Father.

          • Dan Atatakai

            ckandersen – yes, according to YOUR personal faith-based belief. However, Islam, by THEIR faith-based belief, they are correct.

            Remember, too, that the Jews do not accept the rabbi Jesus as their Messiah. Does that mean they are all wrong, then?

          • ckandersen

            Within my faith, yes, they are wrong. The builders rejected the stone that became the cornerstone of God’s work. Let’s also consider that Christians will pray for those that do not accept Christ, while Muslims will cut the heads off those who do not accept Mohammed as the “final prophet.” There were certainly excesses by the Christian church in the past, but those have not continued in the present. The excesses and brutality of Islam still exist.

          • Dan Atatakai

            ck – so you take the acts of extremist fanatics and make it the norm? Should we take the KKK who claim to be Christian and use their examples as “good Christian behevior”, too? Really?

            Quick Islam 101 lesson for you. The Qur’an COMMANDS that Muslims respect those of the book, who are Christians and Jews. Your claim that Muslims cut off the heads of those who disagree with the teachings of Islam with Muhammad as being the final “prophet of God” is nonsense, and only relate to these fanatics who twist their religion to fit their egos. This is NOT mainstream Islam by any means.

            There are people in all major camps who are fanatics. Thankfully, they are a very small percentage, even in Islam. So, with your claim about “brutality of Islam still exist” is nonsense.

          • Dennis

            And you have never attended “services” in an Arab mosque, have you? It isn’t idyllic teachings of the Quran that you believe it to be. The hatred is widespread and has been taught for centuries, if not millennia. Think Fox News and you will have a better understanding of how zealous they are. They have their own twisted version of Rush Limbaugh in every mosque!

          • LittleRoot_48

            I haven’t heard Rush advocating for the killing of those who don’t agree with him.

          • LittleRoot_48

            I haven’t heard ANY “mainstream” muslims speak out against the “extremists” within their religion. As long as I hear about beheadings, honor killings,etc. by muslims, I will continue to believe that the “brutality of Islam” still exists..

          • Dan Atatakai

            If you have not heard about Muslims speaking out against radicalists, that you can thank partly because of your news media (because that kind of news does not sell) even though there have been reports of massive protests by Muslims against terrorists, globally.

            Here is an old list, made just after 9/11 in the US, which shows a small list of those who were voicing their disdain and condemnation of terrorism by supposed “muslims” who were nothing more than extremist radicalists.

            http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

          • Jo
          • Dan Atatakai

            Your page about Islam being the “beast”, as I have posted earlier, is inaccurate. The number of “the beast” is 616, NOT 666. Therefore, “This book is the Quran; and the Quran is ’666.’” is inaccurate.

          • Sungoddess

            i haven’t heard any mainstream Christians speaking out about how bigotry is wrong but have you forgotten there are christians extremist too just look at the stupid things they have said in the last four years about women and just other human beings period i don’t see anybody marching about that no because they are so busy trying to tell everybody else how to live their lives and turn this nation in to a Christian nation so the Shria law goes both ways and Christians are trying to do that with America.

          • Jo

            islam i the ONLY “religion” that is intolerant of other religions… “there is no god but allah and muhammed is his prophet” says it, very clearly. In fact… islam is NOT a religion, but rather a totalitarian goverment under sharia law, which dictates every aspect of the Muslimʼs life… right down to toilet skills and how to wipe their bottoms! A mosque is is NOT a Church… it is an islamic embassy with a training center. sharia law is NOT compatible with our Constitutional Republic under G-d!

          • Sungoddess

            Christians are just as intolerant believe what you want just reading these post show your intolerance.

          • Jo

            “Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers until they are either dead,
            converted to Islam, or in a permanent state of subjugation under Muslim
            domination. Allowing people of other faiths to live and worship
            independently of Islamic rule is not an option.”
            http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/013-forced-conversion.htm

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – the infidel/unbelievers are the ones who invade people’s lands, rape, pillage and murder – NOT anyone who is not of the Islamic faith! Get your facts straight already!

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – again, total nonsense. Christianity is totally intolerant of anyone who is not Christian.

            The quote you made was also inaccurate. The passage says, “There is no god but Allah (the God of Abraham) and Muhammad is his FINAL prophet. Islam sees your Jesus as the greatest prophet of God, even more than Muhammad.

            Muslims are ordered to respect “People of the Book” who are Christians and Jews.

            How is Islam NOT a religion? Definition #1 of the term is “a belief in a deity/creator god concept.” That, in Islam, is the God of Abraham. So yes, it IS a religion.

            Mosques are not like a church? Obviously, you have never been in one on Fridays for prayer, have you! They ARE training centers, true. They train Muslims to be better Muslims, through education of what the Qur’an teaches. It is not a militant training center as you seem to think. Those mosques which are go against the teachings of the Qur’an, fyi.

            The Bible is every bit as much a guide to living one’s life as is the Qur’an and Sharia Law. The difficulty is that it is obvious that you have never read what Sharia Law really encompasses, have you.

            Whose “Constitutional Republic under God” are you talking about? Are you talking about the U.S.? Islam does not want to take over the U.S.

            You need to try learning and stop listening to the rumor-mongers as you are given bad information. I suggest a single semester in Adult Education to learn about Islam and other religions in a Comparative World Religions class, taught by an accredited school.

            And for your information, no, I am not Muslim, never have been and never will be. I do, however, know about what I speak as I have taught this subject before.

            Now, do you have anything of credible bases of which you wish to discuss? If so, please post. If not, thank you for your time.

          • Jo

            I know what I speak of… my sister was married to a muslim. It is perfectly acceptable to lie about islam, as long as it will advance islam (taqiyya). mosques are islamic training centers for jihad. Children are taught to hate the infidel from little on. mahammed was nothing more than a murderous pedophile… not a prophet! When he first presented his “religion”… it was REJECTED! Mecca converted to islam after mahammed went on a murderous rampage.

            muslims worship a rock in mecca and another one (75′ tall) inside the dome of the rock… built upon the ruins of the Fortress of Antonia… allah is a rock?

            You will see NO Christian men marrying muslim women. However, muslim men marry Christian women and their children MUST BE RAISED muslim, or be “honorably” killed, at age 13. My nephews are well hidden, as they have accepted Y’shua as their Lord and Savior.

            islam’s mission is to islamize the world… through jihad, if necessary. There are NO moderate muslims. When jihad happens in this country and the infidels are being murdered… who do you think the “moderate” muslims will stand with??? Infidels? I don’t think so!

            You have bought the lie… hook, line, and sinker! The Public Schools of IndoctriNation have taught you well… there are none so blind, as will not see the Truth!

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo, sadly, it is you who has “bought the lie” as what you are claiming about Islam is not mainstream teachings of the Qur’an, but of radicalism.

            Do you even know the primary definition of Jihad? For your edification, it is as follows: An inner struggle between the ego and self as to what is right and wrong. What you are using for Jihad is the third definition which has to do with fighting injustice, and given that you are taking the extremist view, yet again.

            There are no Christians who have married Muslim women? None? Really? Should I not mention David Bowie, then, married to Iman? Again, you are taking what others are telling you and ignoring the facts given you.

            Last point: Muslims worship a rock? No, they do not. The “rock” as you call it is not worshipped. It is a meeting point for prayer. That is like saying Christians worship statues of Jesus and Mary. They don’t. Do Jews worship the menorah? Of course not.

            I am sorry you have such ignorant disdain about people who are just minorly different than you – in this case, by religious belief. You choose ignorance over facts. You take radicalism over reality. I can’t begin to wonder what you would say about Buddhists, let alone Christian Buddhists! My only guess would be “No such thing!” Yet, there are more than a million Christian Buddhists globally, as well as many Jewish Buddhists and Muslim Buddhists.

            So, unless you have anything of reference, as I have given you time after time, (and no, youtube videos are not valid as anyone can make those making ANY type of claims, including President Bush and Obama are reptilians) I guess we are going to have to settle with going our directions as we see fit. I go on peer-reviewed facts and not Fox News rumors, thank you.

          • Jo

            Do you consider mohammed to be the best authority to interpret the qur’an? Are the hadith authoritive to all muslims?

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – Academically, hadiths can NOT be taken with any seriousness, given that some have been shown to be written by other people wishing to discredit Muhammad.

            How can Muhammad be considered to be an authority to interpret the Qur’an, given he was illiterate?

            There is so much you have yet to learn about what you are attempting to insult. Again, I suggest most strongly that you learn before you decide to condemn, especially with people who worship the same God of Abraham as you claim to do.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – out of curiosity, what does ANY of this have to do with the suggested topic of discussion, namely Mr. Perry feeling threatened by Mr. Obama when the POTUS demands education throughout the US be on the same level of excellence, not just held in state authority? Do you think, maybe, that Mr. Obama is Muslim? I do hope not because if you do, then again, you are showing your complete willful ignorance, once again.

          • Jo

            WRONG… the hadith is as important to a muslim, as the New Testament is to a Christian!
            the qua’ran = thus sayeth allah
            hadith = thus sayeth mohammed

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – so you are demanding that, even though it has been proven time and again that some of the hadiths were written to discredit Muhammad, that Muslims must take them as holy? I think not.

            Let me know what academic environment you studied Islam and from what authors – people who are peer-reviewed, not your Shoebat radicalist.

          • Jo

            That’s not at all what I said, Dan…

            May YHWH bless you and Y’shua find you where you’re at… peace be with you. Amen.

          • ScarletPimpernil

            Without saying either yea or nay to your assertions, I remind you much truth found and shared in this world counters what “learned” men promote.

            I, once, inquired of a Baptist preacher why he prayed to Jesus and then closed the prayer in his name when the Bible cleared showed Jesus said to pray to the father in his, Jesus’ name. The preacher’s response was “I’ve had four years of ministry school. My response was simple: “They told Jesus, too, he was unlearned, unlike them.”

            Merely that we learn to parrot what “authorities” say or wrote was truth does not make it truth. Clearly, many intelligent men and women boast of study, but disagree on the interpretation of offered facts.

            Take the King James Bible, as an example. How many note god is capitalized in many places, and not in others? How many know the reason is the removal of the name of the one to which Jesus prayed? In instances where the father’s name was removed, god is capitalized.

          • JKellogg

            Hiya, Jo. I found this link a while back. Though it openly admits that it is clearly a minority view, it’s still interesting. If true it would be quite revolutionary. It could also be complete heresy to Islamic believers. Certainly there were Christian heretical works if the writings of the early church fathers are any indication. The thing is that heretical teachings are usually a bit more unreasonable. Anyway, here you go:

            http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2012/12/the-christian-origins-of-islam

          • Jo

            I read Dantes Inferno years ago, in High School. There were different levels in Hell… it was all very interesting, as is the take in the article.

            The qua’ran reminds me of the children’s game “Telephone”… where someone tells a simple story to the next person, who in turn, tells it to the next person, and so on and so forth, until they get to the end of the line and it becomes an entirely different story! Some of the names and/or details may remain the same, but everything else is mixed up or completely at odds with the original story. There is no chronologically correct order…

          • Jo

            Still… there is nothing new under the sun… it just has to be re-discovered. islam… resurrected ba’al worship! allah = moon god… pre-islam.
            http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

          • Jo

            allah is NOT my G-d… my G-d has a Son (Y’shua), by Whom I am saved! allah has no son. Stop trying to make allah and YHWH the same. It seems to me that YOU have a lot to learn, young man… but you won’t because, you are what my mama would call “a rockhead!”

            If today you hear His voice… harden not your heart.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – then, you are admitting that the God of Abraham, as seen by the Jews, is NOT YOUR GOD, EITHER, right?

            FYI, I am working on my 7th decade of life. Because I have taken the time to actually understand the teachings of the many different religions, and you have not, that makes you MORE understanding an authority?

            Is name calling really necessary? I have studied the various religions AS AN ADULT since I became an adult – that is more than 4 decades now. Do you really want to compare credentials?

          • Jo

            YHWH is my G-d…
            It’s a pity that you have “studied” religion all those years and you haven’t learned the Truth.

            You are very arrogant. You consider yourself an authority on every discussion and rebuke irrefutable evidence presented to you. I shant cast my pearls before you, anymore.

          • Dan Atatakai

            You never offered any “pearls”, but just claims done by those who have wanted to make money off of your faith-based beliefs and gullibility.

            So, you believe that knowledge equates to arrogance? I have not learned the “Truth”? Which “truth” would that be? Do you mean what you CALL the truth being your faith-based belief? That is subjective truth, not fact.

            Good luck in your claims. I noticed how most of the time you never addressed anything I showed you regarding facts about your faith. Oh, well. I hope your life is more peaceful and kind than what you show in here.

          • Dennis

            Yes, Dan, I think we would. You have repeatedly stated you learned what you know about Islam through academic study. Yet you oddly avoid sharing where you studied? It is one thing to learn something in a classroom and another who has real experience in the subject.
            How can you dare to suppose that you know what you’re talking about? Academic study? Where and by whom? Sounds to me that you went to a brainwashing center.
            I know what I experienced and it ISN’T what you describe. Jo also knows from an up close and personal experience. All that we are offering you are firsthand accounts. You are offering us only an academic classroom study.
            Who would you let operate upon you: a doctor with only academic experience of performing your needed brain surgery or an experienced neurosurgeon who has done it before?

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – Okay – you want my CV? Really? I have studied and taught at the following academic arenas. Mt. San Antonio College, Hsi Lai University, University of San Francisco, Santa Ana College, Fullerton College, in California, Tokyo University of Science and Shibaura Institute of Technology in Japan. Have had co-workers and professors from Claremont Graduate School, Fuller Seminary, Claremont Theological Seminary, University of California at Riverside, Cal State University at Long Beach, and more. I have lived and worked (also attended mosques, and have had numerous conversations/seminars with numerous Imam and other peer-reviewed, accredited theologians/educators, in the US, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, England, France and Thailand.

            Obviously, your claims of getting your “life experience” in Qatar (?) Afghanistan and another country (all three areas known very well for radicalism and not mainstream Islam) is more than enough to know the historicity and culture of the Qur’an and what it teaches? Was your experienced at all biased due to military bias? “War tends to create nasty bigotry toward culture.” Look at how many people are still hateful of Japan, and WW2 is more than 65 years over.

            As you see, my experience is not ONLY academic.

            Have you any experience other than purely assumptive observation to justify your demands that Islam is wanting to take over the world, that beheadings are the norm, etc.?

            Your turn to show your CV.

            If you have nothing more to offer to attempt to “trump” my “lacking of understanding of Islam” I suggest we drop it.

            I am still wondering what this has to do with Mr. Obama and Mr. Perry.

          • Dennis

            Jo, I applaud your boldness in proclaiming the truth. Truth that you’ve learned from a firsthand account. I too have witnessed the same as you describe and poor Dan is only a parrot of the liars who would deceive and eliminate us. Good post, Jo!

          • Jo

            Thanks you for your encouragement, Dennis… it means a lot to me. Yeah… I’ve become pretty bold in my old age. ;)

            If Truth offends some… so be it. But if even ONE soul can be reached through my boldness, the angels will rejoice with me! G-d bless you, Dennis… Amen.

          • LittleRoot_48

            What have they said about women and “just other human beings period?” Who’s trying to tell you how to live your life? I don’t care what obama says, this nation WAS founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Given a Christian nation or an islamic nation to live in, I’ll take the Christian nation any day. You won’t find any Christians threatening your life if you don’t “convert” unlike muslim extremists.

          • Sungoddess

            Christians making laws pertaining to womens rights you must live under a rock trying to make women have rape babies and one of my personal favorites when a women is raped she can’t get pregnant cause something shuts the whole thing down. This nation was founded. By stealing a country slaughtering its citizens and owning other people great Christians or your intolerance of people who’s lifestyle doesn’t fit in to your little box religion sucks period none is better than the other it brainwashes people into not being able to think for themselves like doing right just because it is the right thing to do Christians have also gone on murderous rampages the kkk ,hitler the lynching of other human beings so Christianity has its share of extremist too. Christians hands are not clean either.

          • LittleRoot_48

            If this country is so bad, feel free to select another one and move. When was the last time Christians went on a murderous rampage? Who is trying to make a woman give birth to a baby conceived by rape?

          • Sungoddess

            My people were the original people here so I’m not going anywhere your people and their religion came here and screwed it up remember that and forced it on us I’m sure you will be in denial about that.

          • LittleRoot_48

            What people would that be?

          • Sungoddess

            Maybe you should read something other than your bible if you don’t know who the the Americans that were already here. FACEPALM

          • Sungoddess

            i guess you haven’t listen to the crazy nut case Christians that have been running for government office or you must live under a rock

          • Dan Atatakai

            Short answer – many. The KKK, who claim to be Christian, do represent Christianity by their claiming to be so. I have not heard Christians protesting against the Ku Klux Klan recently, have you?

            Who is trying to make a woman give birth to a baby conceived by rape? How about groups like Westboro Baptist Church and many of the Republican congressmen who want to eradicate ANY abortion?

          • Sungoddess

            Don’t forget gay people from getting married when it doesn’t effect your life if a women want to have a abortion it’s not your business I was brought up in the church and realize it is a way to.control masses of people the president is a Christian you just have a problem because he is black nobody Is trying to convert anyone here in the United States all I hear is Christian screaming about your rights being taken away no one is taking away your rights but don’t shove them on other people.

          • LittleRoot_48

            God’s Word teaches that homosexuality is a sin. I don’t recognize gay marriage and don’t care if you do. I am opposed to abortion except if a woman’s health is in danger and don’t care how you feel about it. That’s your business. I do not believe O is a Christian. For one thing, he claims to believe in collective salvation. Christians believe in personal salvation through professed faith that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins. We do not depend on everyone else for our salvation. Christ is our PERSONAL SAVIOR not our COLLECTIVE SAVIOR.

          • Sungoddess

            What ever Hiltler Said he was a Christian and maybe you don’t care my point is Christians trying to stifle other peoples freedom with their beliefs that fact the you are hucabees page agreeing with him is actually what i mean nitration into other people lives.I have never seen god so i don’t believe in things that there is no proof off.Religion is a way to control masses of people into hating people who don’t fit into their little box period so no invisible diety is going to tell me to treat another human being different and what does it matter if the president isn’t a christen only a Christian is worthy of being president now look who’s being intolerant .

          • LittleRoot_48

            Perhaps if you would refrain from using run-on sentences, your post might be easier to read. If you can’t, then don’t bother to reply to me because I’m not going to waste my time trying to read anymore of this one or any in the future.

          • Dennis

            I think you just set the world record for the longest run-on sentence without correct spelling, punctuation, capitalizing words incorrectly and not capitalizing proper nouns. Of course I can overlook this and yet I still understand SOME of what you wrote. The point is that you have NO understanding of FAITH at all. How can you complain about a subject you don’t understand? Easy, you fear what you don’t understand.
            You claim religion is a way to control the masses and I somewhat agree with you but that “control” comes from men, not God. If God wanted to he could make even the stones to sing His praises. We are free to choose what to believe.
            I dislike the way the term “religion” is commonly used. It compartmentalizes believers to make it easier to attack by non-believers. Religion is something far different from spirituality. I believe we are spiritual beings. Whether we investigate our spirituality or not is up to us. This is God-granted free will. I do not believe in rote religious practice for its own sake but I do believe in a deity (our Creator) that IS in control of this world and all of the galaxies. How else did we come into existence? And I have a real relationship with my Creator and I have SEEN the results of this. And I FEEL its positive effect in my life. I wouldn’t trade my belief for anything including life itself. I’d rather be in a grave than to live without hope. For that kind of life means to me that I am already dead.
            A big bang? How ridiculous is that? It sounds like something a school child would make up. A bang from what? There would have to be something to begin with in order to create a big bang, wouldn’t there?

          • Sungoddess

            i was typing on my phone but whatever real petty.

          • Dennis

            Proper grammar, spelling and punctuation are not just good ideas or merely suggested way to communicate. If you want us to understand you then you should employ those things. I know real petty. Just like math, science, civic law and theology.

          • Jo

            Division is the way the masses are controlled. The issue has NEVER been about Black vs White, Republican vs Democrat, Rich vs Poor, Unions vs non-Unions, pro-Life vs Abortionists, etc… it has ALWAYS been about Right vs Wrong or Good vs Evil!

          • Jo

            Proof that G-d exists…
            http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/

          • JKellogg

            Hiya, Jo. I’d like to give a personal opinion on this. Absolute proof that God exists will never be found unless He changes the laws of physics. Perhaps ‘in the blink of an eye’? Interestingly, recent research in cosmology and theoretical physics seems to indicate that this can indeed happen.

            Logic, such as what is used in the site you posted, is not proof, but it can be a strong indicator, just as Romans 1:19-20 exhorts us to understand that man is ‘without excuse.’

            Thad said, and enduring belief in God requires faith as defined in Heb 11:1. And as you further know, the natural man cannot know spiritual things because they are spiritually discerned. (Cor 2:14)

            I’ve been watching this thread with interest and I have to say I’ve seen much better arguments presented by atheists than the ones presented here, because they don’t employ logical fallacies like straw man arguments, red herrings, and indirect ad hominem attacks.

            Keep posting, my fellow believer! I look forward to it.

          • Jo

            It’s an interesting Apologetics site… G-d is absolute Truth! Have you seen Ron Wyatt’s discoveries? Awesome affirmations of Biblical occurrences!
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFyiT06pBi8

            I have noticed a separation of the sheep from the goats for quite some time now, and the gulf is ever widening, ‘tween the two. There aren’t many sitting on the fence, anymore. I will continue to speak the Truth, as long as I have breath, and plant seeds along the way… although there are those, that my mom would call “a rockhead!” ;)

            Thank you for your encouragement, J. I may continue here a little, but I refuse to cast my pearls before swine…
            G-d bless you! :)

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – sorry, but Ron Wyatt and his claims have been debunked time and again. Mr. Wyatt is on par with Kent Hovind, a pseudoscience “expert” with a fake PhD.

          • Jo

            This has NOT been debunked… there are only those who do not want the Truth revealed. Then they would all have to be accountable to G-d! When the time is right… the tables of the Law will be brought out for ALL to see.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – the supposed proof that Mr. Wyatt claimed for the finding of Noah’s ark was nothing more than a rock formation, of which there are many in that area, known as alluvial flow.

            Mr. Wyatt’s “proof of giant people” was also disproven when what he claimed was the femur of a “giant man” ended up being the femur of a cow. Not only is this assumptive, but completely dishonest. Yet, you trust this person?

            His findings in the Red Sea of the Moses being chased by Egyptian soldiers was also disproven many times. Seeded waters does not make for proof. Also, according to the story, it was the Sea of Reeds, or Reed Sea if you wish, not the Red Sea.

          • Jo

            Skeletal remains of giants have been discovered, in many parts of the world. I had a Math teacher in high school that towered over the class at nearly 7′! There are records of Indigenous people in the Midwest that were 7′, 8′, 9′ tall. You can find newspaper clippings about them or early recorded historical accounts.

            Noah’s boat… NOT a rock formation… look at the scientific data presentedhttp://www.specialtyinterests.net/the_remains_of_noahs_ark.html

            Reed Sea translates to Red Sea. The ancient name of the beach is Nuwayba’ al Muzayyinah (Arabic): meaning “The Waters of Moses Open.”

            Says theology professor Bernard F. Batto: “What we call the Red Sea
            . . . was regarded by the ancients as the sea at the end of the world.
            Interestingly enough, the Greeks applied the name Red Sea not only to
            our Red Sea but also to the Indian Ocean and, later when they discovered
            it, even to the Persian Gulf . . . Yam sup came to refer to the Red Sea
            because like other ancient peoples, the Israelites did not distinguish
            the Red Sea from oceans further to the south. To their way of thinking,
            the Red Sea—the yam sup—was the sea at the end of the earth” ( Biblical Archaeology Review , July-August 1984, p. 59)

            These are NOT seeded waters… they are chariot parts, preserved in coral! Red granite columns (placed by Solomon) mark the place of the crossing on either side. But… like I said… there are those who don’t want the Truth revealed:
            http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chariot-wheels.htm#.Uyh8zUQUhaE

            http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/chariots-in-red-sea-irrefutable-evidence/

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – again, I can’t help but notice ALL of your sources are extremely biased sources.

            What indigenous people have been recorded at 8 or 9 feet? Science link, please, not some biblical source attempting to make fables true. People who are 7′ tall are within the norm – look at many of the basketball players. There is NOT, however, an entire tribe of people made up of people at 8-9′ tall, is there. Come on, be honest. There is also NO empirical evidence of anyone living longer than 170 years, and yet, Noah was supposedly 500 years old when he decided to have children and start building a ship? Really?

            Again, if you have nothing objective to show, then I suggest you save your energy. Also, when you post links, make sure you post the entire link. http://www.truthorfiction.com/… and http://www.specialtyi… are not links.

            As I doubt you will be able to produce anything other than your faith-based links, I suggest we then quit as this is going nowhere.

          • Dennis

            Yeah, but does he have a fake BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

          • Dan Atatakai

            NO, Dennis, it is not a fake birth certificate. It has been notarized by the authorities in Honolulu, HI. If he were not born in Honolulu in August, 1961, the Honolulu Star Advertiser and the other major paper would not have posted the birth noticed in their paper, stating the hospital and date of birth, along with his name and his parents’ names.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – faith-based belief is not proof.

          • Jo

            Is that Absolute Truth?

          • Dan Atatakai

            Faith-based belief, of course, is not Absolute Truth. It is based purely on faith, without ANY evidence. What a silly question.

          • Jo

            Is that Absolute Truth?

          • Dan Atatakai

            The issue is that you are making comment as if your faith-based belief is absolute truth. It is not. It is based on faith, not fact nor evidence. Don’t play that little game your web site you referenced earlier uses. It is a fallacious argument.

          • Jo

            G-d is the issue…

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – and given that God is faith-based and not empirical, your perception of God is just as accurate as a Muslim’s, a Jew’s, a Zoroastrian, a Hindu, or an Animist.

          • Jo

            “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts they shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away [their] ears from the Truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
            ~2 Timothy 4:3

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – and this is relevant how?

          • Jo

            Only a fool would say in his heart;
            “There is no G-d…”

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – again, this comes from your personal holy book. This is not a statement of fact, but that of faith.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – again, you are making terrible assumptions. I am not what you define as a “naturalist” but very spiritual. I believe in God, but the difference between you and me is that you demand your faith is fact, instead of admitting it is, indeed, faith.

            I have a great deal of hope in my life. I have a great deal of faith in my life.

            I doubt seriously, if God is understanding (which is what an omniscient being would be) I would not have anything to worry because I am not taking YOUR personal spiritual path. I doubt, again, if God is as is claimed by many, omniscient, that even atheists would have any problems.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – again, you are wrong. Why do you assume so much when you do not KNOW??

            First, quoting something out of the bible which is vague at best regarding the topic is wasted energy for you. You can find just as relevant quotes out of the Baghavad Gita and the Qur’an.

            No, again, I am NOT a “naturalist” as you have intended it. That is not the proper definition of “naturalist” by the way.

            As for my not having faith, on the contrary, I have a great deal of faith. It just is not under the label of Christian that you use. My faith is every bit as strong as yours. I just do not demand that my faith-based belief is FACT and all others are WRONG, as you have been doing. I am a realist when it comes to definition of the term “fact” or “truth.”

            Again, if the God both you and I believe in happens to be as omniscient as is stated in the many different faiths, then regardless of if I am on the right spiritual path or not, or whether you are or not, or if both of our spiritual paths are the right ones for us, or both wrong, I doubt that this deity would “punish” anyone for being a good person, but just not wearing the right “name tag” for their belief system.

          • Sungoddess

            Still haven’t seen him there is no proof.And I really don’t care I’m more of a reality person and i won’t discriminate against people because some book tells me so.

          • Dennis

            Hitler, Obama and the KKK all claim to be Christian but real Christians know better. I didn’t catch your reference to Huckabee and I have no idea what nitration is other than a chemical process. You’ve never seen electricity either but you DO believe it exists don’t you? Who said that only a Christian can be president? Not anyone here. Did you have a bad dream Sungoddess? I sense a lot of anger in your posts, maybe you should seek professional care. Anger is not good for you.

          • Jo

            “Collective salvation” is islamic…

          • Dennis

            Sungoddess, you are once more off base. Whatever anyone does in this country must affect us all. A woman having an abortion is murder, it is the ending of a human life. Maybe the life isn’t fully developed but I see people walking this land who are STILL not fully developed yet treated as human.
            As for the president, he is NOT black. Nor is he white. He has equal parts but it isn’t his skin that bothers me. It is his performance in office. Liles told daily and simply hasn’t kept promises made before his election.
            Who is shoving Christian “rights” upon you? IN what way? I’d like to hear a specific complaint instead of the constant generalizing made by you and other anti-Christians.

          • Jo

            I don’t have a problem with Barry’s skin color… it’s his POLICIES and his LIES that I have a problem with. Right away, y’all shout “Racist!” Get the chip off your shoulder, girlfriend…

          • awenger

            Look, there are extremists who call themselves Christian. But I’ve been to a Million Man March in Washington DC where nearly a million Christian lay prostrate before the Lord. One of the mantra’s of the Promise Keeper Movement was to ‘Break down the Walls’…walls between race were among the walls we are suopposed to strive to break down…as well as walls between denominations, learning how to respectfully treat women, etc.. Most of the major Protestant groups had members in attendance. By the way, I’d like you to quote what was said about women.

          • JC08

            Then how do you explain the current war in Syria where they’ve demonstrated excessively with the burning of Christian churches and murderous rampages and beheading of entire villages that refuse to accept Islam? You do read the current news as well eh? Not to mention the history of the same in Africa?

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – one very simple term. Radicalism.

          • Dennis

            Pretty blasé attitude for such horrific actions. Radicalism is your excuse for this? It is pretty rampant and shouldn’t be dismissed as the lunatic fringe, Dan. Wake up and you’ll see that there are hundreds of thousands that believe that way. Will your so-called peace-loving Muslim majority join us in the fight against it?

          • Jo

            Quick islam 101 lesson for you….
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvraicdb2Kk

          • Louis Stanfield

            The only reason christians don’t kill those who disagree with them is that they don’t have the political power to do so. Muslims still have that power. When christians had the power, they killed ANYONE who disagreed. Don’t try to claim any moral high ground over Muslims. Christians are NO better.

          • sylviacroft

            Many Jews are what they call “Completed Jews” which means they have met their Messiah Jesus. The Israelites have a special covenant with Yahweh and many more will accept His son as their Messiah before the culmination of all things. Jesus came as a Jew. But, Allah and Yahweh are not the same. You can say that all you want because you read it somewhere, but Allah never claims to have a son. The Muslims consider that to be blasphemous. Allah never gave a son to die for our sins.

          • Dan Atatakai

            sylvia – sorry, but that is not true. Muslims worship the God of Abraham, just as the Jews do. The Jews also do not believe God had a son. That is strictly a Christian faith-based belief ONLY.

          • Jo

            allah MUST NOT be confused with the one true G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and
            Jacob (YHWH). islam is the the beast of Revelation and “in the name of
            allah” is his badge of servitude (the mark of the beast), worn on the arm or the forehead.
            The 12th imam is the anti-Christ and allah is satan, himself! Before you profess to “know” all about islam, please read “G-d’s War on Terror” by Walid Shoebat.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Where do you get this stuff, outside of a radical who is attempting to denigrate Islam, telling lies about it? Are you that afraid to learn that yes, the Allah of Islam IS the God of Abraham? Yes, it really is. Check out any major university textbook which has been peer reviewed. You will see that Islam is one of the three Abrahamic faiths, joined with Christianity and Judaism. This nonsense about Islam being the “beast of Revelation” is nonsense. If you had ever studied the Book of Revelation academically, you would have learned that the beast was Nero.

          • Dennis

            When you say that you studied the Book of Revelations “academically” what do you mean by that? Did you study it in a school? If so, I would like to know where it was, just for the sake of the argument.

          • Jo

            Wrong, Dan… islam is the beast. You have to look at the Bible from an Eastern perspective.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_W7tGdIOgU

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – even by your own video, the first few words prove it is not Islam. “It is a MAN” are the first few words which show it can’t be a religion. Secondly, the “mark of the beast” is not what used to be thought of as 666, but is 616, thanks to earlier mistranslations.

            Apparently, you are too young to remember that at one time, China was the Beast. Prior to that, it was Russia (at the time, the USSR), earlier, it was Germany. So, go ahead and believe someone who is only interested in making a name for himself as Mr. Shoebat has been proving himself so eloquently.

            At one time, the “Mark of the Beast” was a bar code when laser readers were invented. Prior to that, some would say it was the U.S. Social Security number. Can you not see that it was an issue of people “shoehorning” the bible to fit what they want it to be?

            As for a couple of sources for you:

            http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/nero.html

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero#The_Antichrist

            http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/616-not-666/

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/revelation-666-is-not-the-number-of-the-beast-its-a-devilish-616-526779.html

            Now, Jo, have you anything else of academic peer-reviewed sources which supports your claim that Islam is the Antichrist? Anything at all? If not, thank you for your time.

            If you do, please post references for it, not just your hostility and a desire to hate people who follow a different religion but worship the same god as you do, the God of Abraham.

          • Jo
          • LittleRoot_48

            Yes, they are. Many of them will recognize Christ as their Savior in the end, but many will not. You believe what YOU want to believe and I will believe what the Bible teaches me.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Yes, you are completely free to believe your faith-based belief. To demand your way is right for everyone, however, is wrong as another’s faith-based spiritual belief is every bit as valid as yours.

          • Dennis

            There can be only ONE TRUTH. You and everyone else are free to follow your heart if that is where you need to go. But not all beliefs are valid, or true. Only the freedom to believe what you want is valid as mine. One day the truth will be revealed to those who need “proof” but it will come too late for them.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – sorry, but there are numerous truths, especially when it comes to faith-based belief. The truths of which you speak are subjective truths, not fact. Your line, “One day the truth will be revealed to those who need “proof” but it will come too late for them.” is evidence of there being more than only “one truth.”

            What makes the “Hindu truth” any less valid than yours? What about Buddhist truths? Are they not truths for those who practice Buddhism, including Christian Buddhists? Do not Zoroastrians, Jews and Muslims also have truth?

            Yes, you have your faith, and that is fine – for YOU. Your faith is not based on fact, but faith-based belief, which is not proven, obviously. Same with mine!

          • Dennis

            ONLY ONE TRUTH, Dan. All others are runners-up. There can be but one truth. Not many “possible” truths as you infer.

          • BJWILSON

            All the ones that can’t except Jesus ……..Remember” I am the way the truth and the light and no one can enter except by me” A quote from Jesus Christ.. Remember every word spoke in the old Test.is revealed in New Test.,, Every word written in New Test. is consealed in old Test. ….(God Always speaks twice) the very day Jesus rode in to Jerusalem was predicted in Daniel. The very day…..When you fine these hidden passages it makes you want more….Jesus said some will be blind, but to the one that love me will I give more abundantly. Let me give you another find,,,God created the heaven and earth in 7 days but he also said 1 day is like a thousand years..Lets think about this If this is so and I don’t doubt it, From Adam to Christ is 4 thousand years (4 day) from Christ to now is 2 thousand plus.(2 days) if figures right God rested on the seventh day which will mean Jesus will return an rest on the that seventh day..It is all finished. God said ” I am the beginning and the end” GOD BLESS…….. THER ARE A OT OF GOODIES IN HE BIBLE..THERE FOR THE FINDING… please for give typing computer will not let me back up and correct…GOG BLESS

          • Dan Atatakai

            BJ – Thank you for sharing your faith-based beliefs. Please remember that what you have claimed in this post is from YOUR faith-based belief, however does not mean it is fact.

            Remember, some of your own faith will claim that the time from NOAH is about 4500 years, so the Adam and Eve allegory needs to date back at least 6,000 years. (Sadly, science has proven the earth and even humanity to be far older than this, by factors of up to hundreds.)

            Just a quick clarification: Did you mean “except” in your first part of your post? If so, most every religion but yours will except Jesus. Maybe you mean “accept”?

          • Dennis

            Why the obsession with so-called “facts” or proof? What if you tell your wife or children that you love her/them and you’ll always be there for her/them, then they said to you “Where is the proof of this?” How do you really prove it beyond any doubt? Do you require them to prove their love for you?

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – loving people is based on trust, NOT faith. Trust is based on previous experience. Faith is without any experience. Big difference.

            For your significant other(s), do you not have examples of how you love them, using evidence of past actions or deeds?

            Do you have problems with facts? Are facts those little pesky things which get in your way of your wanting to believe in mythical stories and magic stories?

          • Dennis

            Dan, please tell us what you are smoking brother? Love IS NOT based upon trust. I trust my children will not break the lamp, write on the walls or play in the street when I’ve instructed them not to do so. But when that trust is broken, it doesn’t end my love for them.
            I trust my banker and my investment broker and my neighbor but that doesn’t mean that I LOVE them. At least not in the sense that I think you are using the term.
            Faith is a belief in things unseen, not that it is without experience as you stated. You do not understand faith at all my friend, this is clear in your language.
            What “facts” are you referring to? I have no problem with facts at all. Do you have any? I see your logic and your argument are breaking down as you are now resorting to ridiculing my faith in the last sentence of your post. How does your statement fly in the face of your earlier assertions that I am free to believe what I want and to have faith in said belief.?
            No there is nothing “pesky” in your post Dan. Past experience is only good for one’s own records not much else. A spouse may be faithful for 25 years and you may think there is an unbreakable trust that equals love. However, we have all seen that past experience or performance doesn’t necessarily mean it will continue to be so in the future.
            We must take one day at a time and HOPE that past experience can guide us or that things won’t change between trusting couples or even trusting countries, for that matter.
            Love is a CHOICE we make not based upon trust but upon something else altogether. I loved my children before they were born yet trust in them was not a factor. And no matter how many times that trust might be broken, I love them still. A mother that puts her children into a car and drives them into a lake to be drowned doesn’t do so because her trust was broken. She chose not to love them anymore for another reason. God loves me not for my trustworthiness, which I have broken His trust many times, but He loves me for what I am and He chooses to love me anyway. This is what love is, Dan.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – so you are saying you love based on emotion and assumption, right? You assume it is love when you love children who have not even been born. That is assumption, is it not?

            I am not saying that anyone you trust that you love. I never said that. Your argument is like saying “all bugs are insects, therefore all insects are bugs.” Nothing could be more ludicrous.

            I know what faith is. I have plenty of it with my spiritual religion. That is why theistic religions are known as faith-based beliefs. Obviously, you are missing the point, yet again.

            May I suggest we cease this, unless you have something of value to bring up with specifics. And by the way, no, I am not smoking anything. Including blind faith.

          • Dennis

            No Dan, I am not saying anything about emotions or assumptions. Those are your attempts at trying to put words in my mouth. Must be frustrating when you bring a knife to a gun fight.
            I have no argument involving bugs vs insects. Only that love is a decision one makes based upon various other factors, not a simple “based upon trust” as you said.
            I am missing no points here Dan but you should read my words more carefully if you expect to make an argument with them.
            Faith is a belief in things unseen. Sorta like electricity which I DO believe in. It’s unseen and I have no “proof” that when I push the on switch the lights will come on, yet I have full faith that it will work that way every time. Not exactly a BLIND faith for me. It is a faith in something that has been revealed to me.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – your example of electricity and faith is silly. Electricity is empirical in nature – it is NOT based on faith.

            Your issue about “faith” that your light switch will turn on the light is not faith. It is based on trust, based on previous experience.

            Now, if you are going to make any more comments, let’s keep this civil and stop attempting condescension. It is not appealing and only pushes others away.

          • BJWILSON

            Dan, you think you are right in the way you think, but you are wrong in the way I think.. If there were 2 children one sent to outer space and one stayed here, and in ten years they met again, one would have aged more… when God created Heaven and Earth it was out side of our time zone….What I am saying is to us the earth is older, but to God it is about 6000 yrs…There is a very informed man by the name of Chuck Messler…If you are hungry for more info, try his web sight…and his teaching…He has studied and searched the bible for 65 yrs… Our God is so deep and he takes you there…. GOD BLESS… Let me tell you something that has never entered you mind…..The Bible tell us when we see him we will be just like him. But guess what .. In order for us to be like him we will have to be at least 11 dimensions…( in order to go through a wall with out opening a door that takes at least 11……( Isn’t that exciting) .Here, now, we are four dimensions…three and one for time…My Father in Heaven made me hungry for all that is in his words….My prayer to God is to change me from what I am to what he would have me to be….Next week Dan I get to walk where Jesus walked…Israel…

          • sylviacroft

            According to Hebrews 11, it is faith based because: “Without faith it is impossible to please God because he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him.” Following that if you read the rest of the chapter, you’ll read some awesome examples of what faith is in the lives of God’s people. Please everyone who reads this just do yourself a favor and read Hebrews chapter 11, in the New Testament. :)

          • Dan Atatakai

            Sylvia – now, to address the real situation. It is faith-based because one ONLY has faith that it is true for the practitioners/followers. There is absolutely no empirical evidence with which to base the theology. Even MY spiritual religion has no empirical evidence.

          • JC08

            It is faith-based because He only reveals Himself to those that have faith to believe. For all the others, they see His creation and yet can somehow still disbelieve. He isn’t going to force anyone to believe. It’s a personal choice to accept who He is, by what you see He has created and done to redeem mankind at the crucifixion.

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – it is faith-based because there is no empirical evidence. You seem to be interested more in making your theology “special” instead of looking at the facts.

          • Dennis

            This is why FAITH is defined as belief in things unseen. If you had proof then there would be no need for faith, would you?

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – and if it were fact instead of faith, you would be able to actually make claims factually, instead of demanding things are facts, when they are not.

            Just out of curiosity, have you ever even visited a mosque and talked with the imam? I recommend it most highly. Unless you are wearing Westboro style placards in protest, you would most likely be welcomed and treated with respect. You would then see what REALLY goes on in the average mosque, instead of thinking they are all spewing out “kill the people who are not Muslim” type hatred so many people think they do.

          • Dennis

            What am I demanding from you besides the right tom practice my faith without your snide interference with it? You have no facts Dan, and yes I HAVE been to a mosque. Not here in America but in the Arab world.
            Over there, the imam is nothing like what people think of as clergy here in America unless you attend Rev Wright’s church. They are leaders in a secular sense and those people aren’t watching CNN and the latest news information. They get their news at the mosque. What I witnessed was more of a racial hate mob event like a KKK rally, or as I would imagine one. The imam is the minister, the mayor, the newscaster and the head of the local militia all wrapped in one person.
            The hatred is beyond what you might expect and even the youngsters are filled with it. They would kill you with a dull knife while smiling and laughing. They would happily cut out your heart or behead you just for being the Great Infidels (Americans) let alone for being Christian. In fact, they still crucify Christians to this day. Death by crucifixion is not even close to the glorious version depicted by Hollywood. It is harsh, cruel, inhumane and causes anguish and pain beyond human comprehension.
            No sir, you are the one mistaken and living in a daydream; you should wake up to the reality. I was in Southwest Asia and studied them with one-on-one tutoring from a Saudi professor who teaches Arab Affairs and Islamic Studies at an Ivy league school.
            Obama can pull the troops out of that theatre but the jihadist terrorists will still come for us! The war will merely shift from their homelands back to America again. Their hatred crosses the oceans and is very real. They will be back, just watch and see if they don’t!

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis ^ and again, what you are preaching about Islam is still extremism, not mainstream Islam at all.

            Again, the “infidel” is those who would invade another’s lands, homes, etc., raping, pillaging, and murdering. It is NOT those of Christian or other faiths. Yes, these extremist radicals will call Christians and Jews the “infidel” or kafir, however, even the Qur’an commands that Muslims respect “people of the book.”

          • Dennis

            Dan, I am not going to listen to your drivel about Islam beliefs because I KNOW what I saw and heard in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Yemen. If you think that you are knowledgeable about “mainstream” Islam based upon experiences here in the US then you’ve had only a skewed look at the religion and the majority of its believers.
            I am well aware of the differences between what you are calling radical extremists and what you refer to as mainstream. I can’t believe that I just happened to pick the few mosques that contained the world’s supply of extremist Muslims.
            Moreover, there is no comparison between how Christians treat so-called Christian extremists and how the Islamic world treats their own version of extremists.
            Nor even do the extremists in the two religions compare. If the Westboro Baptist Church (which many Christians hold in disdain for the bad light and ill will created against our faith) starts to behead and crucify non-believers, then you can let me know What you’re doing is trying to compare apples and oranges when the two are nothing alike.
            Finally, I must ask you again to stop pinning your narrow-minded labels on me. I am not “preaching” to you only making my point in much the same manner that you are doing. The other thing is your frequent use of the verb “demanding” when addressing me. I know I haven’t demanded ANYTHING from you here. I have only an expectation that you will carry on a logical, reasonable and civil debate based upon facts and personal experience. I am not preaching or demanding because I care little what you will accept from me. Your conscience must guide you where you will go and I wish you peace in getting there.

          • Dennis

            I know you will refute this Dan but I will say to you that the proof of my God is everywhere around us. I have my own personal experiences and miracles that PROVE it to me. It was only for me to wake up and realize what I had in front of me all along. Not rote “empirical evidence” but something more personal, more intimate that makes me believe.

          • JC08

            You have to believe for God to reveal Jesus to you, and He gives you faith, that’s how you know the One True God. For God is a Spirit and no one can know Him unless the Spirit draws Him. I’m not talking about head knowledge because you can read. I’m talking about seeking Him with your whole heart, only then will you find him. See, it’s not that difficult.

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – there are MANY people who believe in God and who are not Christian. What makes them any less valid in their faith-based beliefs than yours?

            You claim that one will find Jesus by believing in God is assumptive and fallacious at best. Remember, even Jews and Muslims believe in the same deity as the one you worship, and yet, they do not have a faith-based belief in Jesus. Does that make them wrong? Could it be they just see things slightly differently than you do, thereby their having their own faith to guide them which lines up in a vast majority of concepts, but not just a few?

          • JC08

            Yes Dan. Actually what I said was “You have to believe for God to reveal Jesus to you, and He gives you faith, that’s how you know the One True God.” So I think we’re talking about two very different forms of belief. Just to clarify what I was saying; If I read a true story about a boy and his heroic dog, I can believe from what I read that his dog is heroic. But that doesn’t mean I know his dog. Right?

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – are you saying that Jews and Muslims, even though they worship the same deity as you, do not know your deity?

            The “One True God” is the deity of the chosen religion, whether it be Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, the three Abrahamic faiths, or any other theistic belief system.

          • Dennis

            Dan, CLAIMING to worship MY God and actually doing so are two things altogether. My God does not permit the stonings, beheadings and cowardly attacking of innocent people. In my Bible there is no Sharia law and no one would think of murdering a young woman, whether she is from the family or not, for so-called honor. I am sorry but you have confused the faiths.
            However, I will give you this: everyone deserves the right to pursue the faith and understanding as they desire as long as it is peaceful. Killing people from behind a veil of religious freedom isn’t permitted by American law or God’s law. I harbor no ill will for ANY other faith regardless of what they believe but it must be with a “live and let live” attitude, don’t you agree?
            I don’t hate Muslims at all. I don’t feel the terrorists of Al Qaeda are true Muslims and do not practice Islam as it was meant to be. However it is being skewed, twisted and distorted in those countries of the arab world

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – did you ever actually read or study what Sharia Law really involves? At all? Because if you had, you would know that killing the “infidel” is not Sharia Law, for one.

            What you ARE doing is taking local cultures and attaching them to Islam. That is like saying that the Pledge of Allegiance in the US is part of Christianity, which it is not – it just resides in the area where Christianity is the majority religion.

          • Dennis

            I care little if the word “infidels” comes from Sharia Law or not. The notion of so-called “infidels” comes from the Islamic nations and is preached in their mosques. This is true and you would have to be a cave-dwelling hermit to not know this.
            Sharia Law is something that someone else believes but not me. I don’t believe it comes from God; therefore, I reject it as falsehoods from charlatans. This is biblical.
            Local “cultures” and Islam are one and the same. Not by my choice but in the way it is practiced by the “majority” of Muslims. No one has said that The Pledge of Allegiance” is a part of Christianity but it DOES include the phrase “…one nation, under God…” which IS a tribute to a theistic deity that most of the citizens of our young nation accepted, like it or not, as Christianity.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – and many people reject what you believe as well. Rejection of it does not lessen the validity of the belief, how ever, does it? Given you do not even know what Sharia Law covers, I guess you are just making up that you do not believe it? How can you deny something you do not know?

            When was the phrase “one nation under God” put INTO the pledge? Do you know that? Do you know the reason?

            Again, I have nothing against Christianity. I am against those who condemn from ignorance and fear. THAT is one of the major problems which has caused so much strife in the world. Fear of another religion or fear of a person’s skin tone or their sexual orientation – all ignorance and fear which has caused death, destruction and hatred, tearing people apart, not bringing them together.

          • Dennis

            Why Dan I think you’re getting close to an epiphany here. You use of the word God is not interchangeable with my use of it. Nor is it the equivalent to everyone else’s perception of my Creator. I leave them to believe what they will and I will walk with my God and my Christ and be led in the Holy Spirit. They are the Holy Trinity. Who else believes in this?

          • JC08

            Dan. Some worship the same God I do, YVHV and some do not. I certainly do not worship Allah or Mohammed. But, as far as the Jews that worship God, but do not worship Him in light of Jesus His begotten Son, they are not worshiping Him in truth, and therefore are worshiping a tradition. The Muslim’s that worship Allah, do worship YVHV. The ‘ONE TRUE GOD” is 3 in one, God the Father, Jesus the only begotten Son and Savior of the world, and God the Holy Spirit. So, God is not relative.

          • Dennis

            Dan, how many people exactly is “many” people that believe in God but aren’t Christian. If they don’t believe that Jesus is the Son of God then they do NOT believe in MY God. Sorry but those are the stone cold facts. The Jews “might” believe in my God but refuse that Jesus is the Christ. As for the Muslims…there is no Allah in my faith, sorry. Just believing in ANY God is not the same as the one, true God. They are free to worship as they wish but please stop trying to compartmentalize all theists into one neat little package so you can understand deity in the way you want it to be.

          • Jo

            allah MUST NOT be confused with the one true G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (YHWH). islam is the the beast of Revelation and “in the name of allah” is his badge of servitude (the mark of the beast), worn on the arm or the forehead. The 12th imam is the anti-Christ and allah is satan, himself! Before
            you profess to “know” all about islam, please read “G-d’s War on Terror”
            by Walid Shoebat.

          • Ted Paine

            and for all the libtards out there here’s a clue: ”HIS” name is not allah.

          • LittleRoot_48

            And thanks to those who want to remove God from our lives completely, we are becoming ever more like those “Godless Communists” in the USSR.

          • Dan Atatakai

            The ONLY place where “God” is being removed from your lives is regarding government facilities and functions. It has NOTHING to do with your personal belief systems.

            By the way, are you not aware that the USSR had and still has the Russian Orthodox Church? Not exactly “Godless” are they.

          • JC08

            Yes, but what god?

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – we ALL have our particular perception of what God is. In the academic realm, the God of Abraham is the one worshipped by Jews, Christians and Muslims. What is to say that this particular God is not the same God as worshipped by Hindu, Zoroastrian and other theistic religions, but with just a different cultural perception? We don’t KNOW which God is which because it is ALL faith-based. We have absolutely NO empirical evidence for God.

          • Dennis

            Yes, that is true. Many even continued to worship Christianity but not openly. Lack of printed bibles meant people couldn’t study God’s word except for the short time spent in church and hearing it from a priest. Bible studies and informal worship in homes was NOT permitted! Maybe not godless but certainly not free to worship. The communists do not endorse other churches outside the Russian Orthodox that I confess I know little about its tenets.
            Yet comparing Russians to their Communist leadership is about as fair as comparing everyday Americans to our crooked and corrupt government in Washington. Russians are still people like you and I and many are spiritual and religious.

          • Graywolf12

            He must be right. After all some commie prof told him they were all nonbelievers. I do not know what they teach in college history and civic classes any more, but it must all be coming from the communist party.

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            God created America to be claimed by Christians. And it was done. Hooch Said.

          • walterc

            Except the Declaration of Independence.

          • Aochoa

            You are correct. We were deadly afraid of Communism and for that reason alone we change our motto which was “Out of many, one” or E pluribus unum

          • BobCinGA

            BS. The words “in God We Trust” have been used on and off since the Civil War on US coinage (e.g continuous usage on the Jefferson Nickel since 1938). Perhaps it is you that should do your research before spreading leftist secular propaganda.

          • Dennis

            And that occurred from the beginning of this country’s birth. That faith in fundamental Christian values carried this country a long, long way. Our straying off the established track has brought nothing but decay and tragedy. We should return to the solid moral ground where this country began. I swear we will regret it if we don’t!

          • Robert Whitlow

            Please see article 11 of the Treaty with Tripoli 1797-1798 that states “As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion”… These are the words of the founders of this country.

          • Dennis

            Oh, are you referring to the BOGUS article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli that was not drafted by our Congress? That article was hastily written and inserted into the Treaty to appease the Arabs he was dealing with to abate piracy in the area. The congress ratified the signed treaty for the sake of political expediency and 8 years later, formally denounced and excluded that specific article which you erroneously purport was written by the founders of this country to clarify America was indeed not based upon the Christian religion but founded upon Christian principles.

          • Robert Whitlow

            Yes, I see you have provided evidence for your claims. Oh wait, no you only state some idea that you have heard to discount a LEGAL document. Please provide a credible citation for your claim since there was not one congressman, or senator, that objected to the inclusion of article eleven when it was ratified. How about you give me the actual date from the congressional record (you know they are available on line now of course) where the lawmakers “formally denounced and excluded that specific article…,” and please explain why congress took this unprecedented action once the treaty was no longer binding as the Barbary Wars, beginning in 1801 nullified it?

          • Diver_Down

            I’m just going to keep adding this to all your statements Robert Satan Whitlow……

            He he he :) Another put down by the venomous Robert “the Satan” Whitlow.
            I also used an icon, please tell me how that’s so below your intellect.
            I can see, with reading all your post, that you didn’t say ONE, not ONE
            nice thing to anybody. Your a snob and pompous a$$, and, most likely
            can count all your friends on one finger, the middle one. I’ve met
            a$$holes like you….. rude, narcissist, egotistical jerks. I am
            disappointed your not a lib, your giving the rest of us a bad name. I
            feel for the person in your photo having to endure your belittling day
            in and day out, I’m sure sometimes she would like to slap the taste
            outta yo mouth. (yeah, I did spell it that way) Reading between the
            lines of garbage you spew, one could conclude that you had contretemps
            in your young life and were bullied and now have found a way in vetting
            your revenge behind a protective wall. In the attempt to spin it back to
            me in me making a ‘feeble’ point, you, Robert Satan, made the point
            that the Declaration of Independence was not a legal document. You
            started it, it was YOUR point, nah nah nah nah boo boo. So, tell me how
            childish I am and how I’m not worth your intellectual wrath and in the
            interim, go f*@k yourself. You sound like a guy a couple houses down
            from me, thinks he’s all that because he can cut and paste snopes and
            Wikipedia. Catch him without his computer or phone and he’s an idiot.
            Oh, by the way, I’m not all that religious if you couldn’t tell. I do
            know that almost all of my forefathers were. I’m sure you’ll ask how I
            know so I’ll answer, because over tea one night long ago, Button
            Gwinnett, William (I called him Bill) Ellery, George Wythe, Caesar
            Rodney and John Adams told me so. :) another icon! …
            F.Y. Robert Satan Whitlow,
            Good Day…
            Molon Labe

          • Dan Atatakai

            Diver – what is this with your attempt at petty name-calling/insult? Is that “Christian” in ethics/manners?

          • Dennis

            Historical investigations have never confirmed the validity of your beloved Article 11 of the Tripoli Treaty. As for it being a LEGAL document, that treaty was superseded by another document in 1805 which removed the text whereupon you base your assertion

            According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the text in Article 11 was “intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that no religion would govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. John Adams and the Senate made it clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.”

            In 1931 Hunter Miller completed a commission by the US government to analyze past treaties to explain how they function and ensure consistency to the United States’ position in relation to the rest of the world. According to Hunter Miller’s notes, “…the Barlow translation is at best a poor attempt at a paraphrase or summary of the sense of the Arabic” and “Article 11… does not exist at all.”

            The official treaty was in Arabic text, and a translated version by known atheist and Consul-General, Joel Barlow, was what got ratified by the United States on June 10, 1797. Article 11 of the treaty was NOT a part of the original Arabic version of the treaty; in its place was a letter from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. This crude letter was inserted into the treaty in the open space between articles 10 and 12 when roughly translated by Barlow then delivered through diplomatic channels to the US for ratification. Due to savagery of the Mediterranean Sea by Barbary pirates political expediency required ratification, warts and all, to allay the carnage and disruption to shipping.

            At least one member of Adams’ cabinet, Secretary of War James McHenry, is known to have protested the language of article 11, before its ratification. After the Barbary conflicts ended a second treaty, the Treaty of Peace and Amity signed in 1805, superseded the previous treaty. The 1805 treaty did not contain the phrase “…not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…” which proves these words were not consistent with those of our “Founding Fathers” as you claim.

          • Sungoddess

            Yeah Christian values that enslaved and slaughtered people oh yeah i want to go back to that.

          • Dennis

            Sungoddess – your ignorance is appalling.
            How do you figure Christian values have enslaved and slaughtered anyone? You surely have your facts confused with your convenient misdirection.

          • Sungoddess

            So the people that came here and killed the natives and enslaved the Africans were not Christians and your ignorance is appalling so are those the Christian values you want to go back to or how about the Jim Crow when people of color we’re not considered human Hitler called him self a Christian and so did the klansmembers maybe you should read some history and that’s just America how about read the bible it says it’s okay to have slaves and stone people to death so who my friend is ignorant and those are just a few atrocities

          • Dennis

            You have no idea what the difference is between Christians and Christian values, do you?
            People CLAIMING to be Christians and killing or enslaving under that blanket ARE NOT the same as real Christians. This isn’t taught in the holy Bible nowhere. Have you read the Bible at any time? If o, then I would think that you would already know this.
            Having slaves is NOT Christian and never was. God’s selected people were taken from slavery.
            But now its time for a history lesson. Did you know the first slaves on this planet were WHITE Europeans? The slave traders were Muslim? The first slave owner in America was black? Many times the African tribal leaders SOLD their entire tribes to the Muslim slavers? Or one tribe would capture another and sell them at the Barbary Coast to slave traders for transport to America? The slavery notion was imported from Africa where it flourishing before we became a nation? The Treaty of Tripoli that Mr Whitlow above likes to cite was created to stop the piracy of American ships where the crews were ransomed or sold into slavery. Not picking tobacco or cotton but chained to a huge oar where they lived out their lives rowing those pirate ships. Sleeping, eating, toiling and all else done at that oar until sweet death released them from a life of agony and anguish, never seeing their families again.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Sungoddess – sadly, so many people want to make the US as a “wonderful place” like Disneyland. I just heard a news report where a person thought “Slaves were happy people, singing all the time and enjoying their lives picking cotton.”

            Remember to take some of these comments with the proverbial grain of salt – even though it seems like sand might be more appropriate, considering the amount of grit they seem to post.

          • JC08

            Sungoddess, Oh you can’t go back to that if you tried. Why? Because it’s NEVER happened here! But just sit tight, cause it’s coming with the Communist & Sharia laws that are being written in our capital right now.

          • Sungoddess

            Yeah you’re right about the Sharia laws it’s called Christianity because every time I turn around some Christian idiot seems to know what’s right for other peoples lives instead of taking care of their own.

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – Sharia Law is being written in the capitol? Really? And what of the Sharia Laws are being written? Name a few of them, please.

            Personally, I doubt you have EVER read WHAT Sharia Law is and what it contains.

          • JC08

            And regret is coming swiftly.

          • Dan Atatakai

            These “christian values” you mention are also found in other religions. Why do you believe it was based on Christian theology, and not just humane thinking? When Benjamin Franklin started structuring the U.S. Constitution, he used the guidelines used by the Five Great Nations of the Americas, Iroquois. They were not Christian, yet, the concepts are still there.

            Even atheists are with morality/ethics. It does not demand a belief in a deity to have good morals.

            What specific things have the US done to get “off track”?

          • Dennis

            Dan, I don’t recall claiming that Chistian values are exclusively Christian. I resent your putting words into my mouth and telling what think then asking me why. You know so much about me I would think that you could answer your own questions.
            I never heard of Ben Franklin’s plagiarizing the principals of the Five Great Iroquois Nations. Yes, yes, yes I know that the values that many call Christians values are shared by other beliefs, groups, religions and precepts. And yes, I know that many men and women have no need for guidance to live a somewhat moral life but NONE are without sin, guilt and shame, including you and I. THAT is where we divide. What is to be done about that? Everyone must decide for themselves. I have made my choice and I do not coaching on how wrong I am. I am not perfect but I am working on it. How about you?

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – the point is that you can claim that the US is built upon Judeo-Christian ethics, however, you could also say it was built on Hindu ethics just as much. They share the same ethical issues as what the US was based on. What so many people do is “shoehorn” these ethics to claim they are Christian, when they are not necessarily. Is that a bit clearer, now?

            Mr. Franklin did not plagiarize the thinking of the great tribes of the Iroquois, but he was given permission, given that it was working so well for them.

            About dealing with sin, in my personal spiritual beliefs, it is up to me to handle getting past my transgressions, both by working it through with those I have gone against, and also to forgive myself. I do not believe that it can ONLY be done through God and by believing in Jesus.

            Is there anything else about this you wish to discuss? If so, please post. If not, thank you for your time.

          • Dennis

            Your best post so far, Dan. I applaud you. And I enjoyed your sharing that your transgressions have caused you to take action to relieve your humiliation and shame with forgiveness, but you didn’t mention repentance. Isn’t repentance a part of your belief system? Why do you not boldly profess your beliefs? Do not be afraid, I will not attack you for doing so, I promise.

          • Dan Atatakai

            What humiliation and shame? I never mentioned anything in that line. By making amends to ones I may have harmed as well as forgiving myself is repentance enough, in my beliefs.

            Why should I brag about what my spiritual religion happens to be? I have stated my beliefs that my “sins” do not necessarily need God or Jesus to obtain forgiveness.

            Again, stop your condescending comments. “Do not be afraid, I will not attack you for doing so, I promise.” I am not about to brag to you. I am not worried what you say. It is just irrelevant to the conversation, so why should I speak boldly about my faith-based beliefs? Have you even studied religions other than your own personal beliefs? If not, highly unlikely you would understand my “religions” anyway.

          • Sungoddess

            Dennis you need a history lesson if you think the beginning of this countries birth was great because of christian values you are delusional .

          • Dennis

            No Dear, I don’t think I am delusional or in need of a history lesson. I could debate this with you as long as you like but if you’ve run out of logical points and have resorted to only attacking my mental health or knowledge of American history, then I believe you are out of credible points to make…
            This country’s beginning was great because of God’s intervention. Our creation in the face of overwhelming odds was nothing short of miraculous. Christian values have led to life-saving institutions like food banks, orphanages, libraries, low income assistance and housing, free medical care for those that need it and clean drinking water. This is just what Chistians have done overseas with our missionaries.
            How many atheistic missionaries are out there helping people that can’t help themselves? How many Islamic? Or any non-deity faith/belief systems? If any at all, they are grossly outnumbered by the Christian outreaches made possible by people who have true charity in their hearts and dig deep in their pockets to help in some way to save people.
            Not just doing great things in God’s name in the early stages of this country’s birth but still doing good today. And sacrificing their lives to do so. Christians are slaughtered or imprisoned every day to do what they believe is righteous. THAT is the level of commitment we have to helping our fellow man.
            Tell me, who else is doing this? Oh yeah, I nearly forgot the liberals who rob from people to give to the poor (and keep a huge cut for themselves)…

          • Dan Atatakai

            Kiki – if you mean like “In God We Trust” on the paper money? Because of the “Red Scare” it was placed there in 1956-7. In the Pledge of Allegiance, same reason – 1954. This is not an issue which went back to the “founding fathers.”

          • sylviacroft

            Dear Dan, Please take a trip to our nation’s capital and look at all the Scripture engraved in stone on our national monuments and in the Supreme court’s chambers that have been there since they were made and built. Go into the national cathedral and look at the paintings from our beginnings showing our founders either reading His precious Word or on their knees praying to their God. Are you aware that our very first written constitution was something called the Mayflower Compact and it point blank states that the Pilgrims were here to “advance the Christian faith and for the glory of God.” Google it! Also, order a small book online called: “God’s Signature on our Nation’s Capital.” You and Whitlow need to educate yourselves a little deeper than those rewritten historical sources you’re studying.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Sylvia – it might help if you follow the same recommendation that you gave me. Learn about the pilgrims and find out that the Mayflower Compact has NOTHING to do with the U.S. Constitution, nor was it about religious freedoms, except for the Pilgrims. Yes, the Pilgrims did want religious freedoms, to persecute anyone who did not believe as they did. The Pilgrims were NOT by any means Christian in the theological definition. They were about as Christian as Westboro Baptist Church of today.

            In the Treaty of Tripoli, John Adams even stated that the US is NOT based on Christian values. Yes, many of the values found in the basic structure of the Constitution are similar to Christian AND OTHER theological belief systems, but nothing is saying it is about Christianity.

            Are you saying that “In God We Trust” was always on the paper currency, and “One nation under God” was ALWAYS in the pledge of allegiance? If you think my thoroughly researched information is flawed, please post why you believe so.

            By the way, the artistry seen with the various “founding fathers” in prayer is called “poetic license in artwork.” Most of those you see in these pieces of art were no more Christian than His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

          • Dennis

            You are twisting the facts around again. Adams NEVER used those words. Your use of the bogus Article 11 of that Treaty is misleading and untrue. You know full well that those words were inserted into the treaty by Joel Barlow or the Dey of Algiers.

            The official treaty was in Arabic text, and a translated version by Consul-General Barlow was ratified by the United States on June 10, 1797. Article 11 of the treaty was said to have not been part of the original Arabic version of the treaty; in its place is a letter from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli.

            Several years later the Treaty was superseded by another version which properly omitted the sinister text by atheist Joel Barlow. How else could the Original version of the treaty text have NOT contained the damning language that you’re quoting? The Italian version also does not contain the false article.

          • JC08

            Dennis, you are correct, and I was just going to make that same correction when I read your reply. Also, when read in context in the 1796, Article 11 states
            that the US Government (not the nation) is not a Christian theocracy,
            but secular; that it is impartial concerning the religious affairs of
            the nations in question, and that the war itself was not fought on a
            Christian vs. Muslim basis. But after it was broken, the new 1805 treaty did not include it or anything like it.

          • JC08

            Okay, 1. the pilgrims came over as Lutherans with the King James Version of the bible, and preached the Christian God to the Indians. 2. The Treaty of Tripoli of 1796; when read in context Article 11 states
            that the US Government (not the nation) is not a Christian theocracy,
            but secular; that it is impartial concerning the religious affairs of
            the nations in question, and that the war itself was not fought on a
            Christian vs. Muslim basis. But after it was broken, the new 1805 treaty did not include it or anything like it. And 3. The artistry of our founding fathers kneeling and praying was not poetic artistry, they were Christians praying to and thanking God. Gotta watch out for that twisted and re-written history so easy to find out there in our colleges.

          • Dennis

            Dan: Our Founding Fathers let the Senate chambers be used for Christian church services each Sunday. Seems like strangely odd behavior for a group of “mostly non-Christian” atheists, don’t you think?

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – it was a place to meet – makes perfect sense to me. Do you think that Mr. Franklin would not be able to enter because he was an Atheist? Churches are not “holy places” where only “real Christians” can enter. It is a building.

          • Dennis

            Really? Churches are buildings? Maybe a church can meet in a building but the church is the bride and body of Christ. Churched are not “holy places” indeed. The building is but a structure. But when two or more are gathered in His name then He is there. Therefore, it behooves us to respect the place where He dwells. That building and, moreover, in our hearts. The place to really find Jesus is in your heart. The building is not for the true believers as it is for non-believers and sinners to seek salvation.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Your Christian definition of a church does not apply to the situation of a governmental group meeting in a church, does it. You are still trying to make the founding fathers Christian, when so many of them were not. Yes, they met in a building which is called a church, but that does not mean they had to be Christian. It was a meeting place.

            An extra little note. Christianity is not the only religion which offers the concept of salvation. Many of them do.

          • Ron Roy

            Political correctness. Yes there was such a thing even then.

          • Noah Elliott

            It’s not. There are 2 names for the god of the bible mentioned in that book. One is Jehovah & the other is Yahweh. The word God, the one on our money or in the Pledge of Allegiance, is a generic word. Most of the founding fathers were diests, meaning that they believed in a creator but disdained organized religion.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Noah – remember, too, that the “In God We Trust” was not put on the paper money until 1957, and “one nation under God” was inserted in 1954. That does NOT make the US a Christian country, but it was to “rally the troops” to combat this terrible threat called Communism, at the time. (or so they thought was a threat.)

          • RedScourge

            Isn’t it obvious? God’s a graffiti punk of course.

          • Carol Chadbourne

            EXACTLY…anon is WRONG!

          • onwego4k

            kiki he is so ignorant and doesn’t really know history. it was founded on god and built on god that is how follow the monuments around the reflection pool it forms a cross that was not an accident nor all the biblical verses etc on every one. we were founded as a republic one nation under god a judo Christian nation not a democracy they never worked ever. they have infiltrated our nation and its the ignorant people like him that helped them do this now we are on the brink of disaster

          • Frank LaDonna

            John Adams also signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:
            “The
            Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian
            religion.”

            http://www.thecontrarianmedia.com/2012/01/the-framers-on-christianit/

          • Jimmy Ledkins

            It’s not in the constitution. .. where is it besides money that buys the Republican legislators

          • jillyneutron

            Everything? Man, I’m so happy the crazy right-wing religious zombies are bringing about the demise of religion. It can’t happen fast enough for me.

          • Thomas Rusnak

            Would our money be a good example? In God We Trust was added in 1956. The god bit was added to the pledge of allegiance in 1954. That’s just a little bit after the time of the founding fathers.

            History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.

            -Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

          • wolfendenpackleader

            for the most part it was put there in the 1950′s.

          • disqus_PXzgTV7lWI

            Sorry… those were added after our country was founded, by the woefully misguided…

          • Tara

            your christian gods name was placed on things AFTER the communism scare.
            Check your history. The Pledge and the currency were changed in the 1950′s. Previous to that? They had NO reference to your religion.

          • JC08

            Most of the founding fathers were Christians and this country was founded on Judea Christian beliefs.

          • Benjamin Reynolds

            And morals.

          • Sungoddess

            and slavery and slaughter.

          • Dennis

            Here we go again Madelyn O’Hare…

          • JC08

            Ever study the history of indentured servants in our country beginnings? HINT: they weren’t slaves, and they weren’t all black. They were white, Asians, and all colors, and were a product of cheap labor, just like the Mexicans are used for now. At least until a black indentured servant names Anthony Johnson took his land and black indentured servants from his ‘master’ when his contract was up, and petitioned the court to allow him to own his black indentured servants. Thus the court ordered it to be so in 1654, and called them slaves. Sorry honey, but the blacks started that whole mess themselves. Now, what slaughter are you talking about? Yeah, Wikipedia has it wrong. Just another example of twisted and re-written history.

          • Sungoddess

            Oh so the natives being slaughtered is a lie whatever I guess my grandparents being marched of their land and sent to reservations was a lie or the children who were beaten and told to believe in god and speak English was a lie because Christians knew what was best for them again you can believe in the tooth fairy that’s your choice but do not push that bigotry and hate on other people because that’s all it is and it comes out of the mouths of Christians themselves pitting humans against other humans telling people how they should live I only believe in things that have creditable evidence and I have never seen god I’m sorry if someone is hungry I will feed them not pray if someone is drowning I will throw them a raft not stand there and pray prayer is lazy getting out and doing something is reality
            I

          • Anon

            It is very true that a lot of founders may have been influenced by their Christian values. However many were not. The important detail to pay attention to was how secular a lot of ideas were.

            The separation between church and state is very clear.

          • JC08

            No, the important detail to pay attention to is that our Constitution is based on individual rights and freedoms given by the Christian God, and the state cannot form a state religion to be imposed on the people. That is what our constitution makes very clear. Progressives have taken that and turned it upside down, trying to make it sound like the state cannot allow anything faith based in public forums.

          • Anon

            What state religion? Considering the vast majority of our government body proudly touts around their religion I would have a hard time believing that they don’t want the teaching of the bible in every public forum in the country.
            Luckily, our country does not allow for the “majority rules”. This is a good thing. Not just for my sake, being and atheist, but for yours as well. Freedom from religion and the freedom to practice your religion applies to everyone. Just as I would not like the 10 commandments pinned on the lawn of every public school, you don’t want the religious teachings of others forced upon you.
            Given that there are many religions to choose from, the point is that GOVERMENT cannot choose to endorse one over the other. As would be the case if one religious teaching was taught over another.

          • KellyCraig

            HOWEVER, there is a vast difference between teaching about a religion and teaching a religion.

            It would require a feeble mind to think religion can be separated from a country. Attempting to do so would be like trying to remove references to racial tensions, whether in Africa, America or anywhere else.

            A reading of history books about Europe, Asia and so forth reveals much of history was what can only be described as an accounting of religion. Of course, much of it was not good, but then, not all was bad either. And, the bad is why our government cannot establish a state religion.

          • JC08

            The KJV of the bible was the primer they started public schools with in America, and study of the bible continued through the 1800′s.

          • Dennis

            So what? You are mad about the past? How about we limit the argument to the present and future. The past is done and can not be changed whether we’d like to do so or not.

          • Dennis

            Anon you are truly living in a fantasy world. Who is “proudly touting around their religion”? What do you say about those that “proudly” tout their lack of faith and atheism under the fog of “separation of church and state”?
            Democracy is and always has been based upon the premise of “majority rules”. Why do you think that elections are based upon the process of “he/she who gets the most votes wins!”?
            Nobody is forcing their beliefs upon you when they practice their faith. It is the ATHEISTS that are forcing and imposing their lack of faith, and personal guilt from it, upon those who believe in a higher being that is in control and created us all. Why does that bother you so much?
            If you believe that there is no such thing as God then why are you bothered by those that think otherwise? You think covering up our faith with your lack of conviction will change the truth? It is what it is. If we are wrong when we die nothing happens except we will die and decay. If you are wrong then you will spend eternity in a hell state separated from the love of God.
            If you had no knowledge of any religious belief at all, which direction becomes the safer route to travel? Believe in a loving God that wants you to have the best life possible. Or an empty lack of faith in anything at all other than yourself?
            I don’t believe what I do out of fear but I believe from a positive personal experience and miraculous supernatural intervention. My God has a place for you should you choose to believe. Otherwise I wish you peace that you seemingly don’t have in your life.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – No, Atheists are not forcing and imposing their lack of faith on anyone. They are merely demanding equal rights as what you seem to demand.

            Are you upset because government properties cannot have the mythological manger scene? Is it, maybe, that people are now recognizing that there are people of other religions, so “Happy holidays” is more inclusive than “Merry Christmas”?

          • Dennis

            Really? Is that so? What your are is passively forcing your non-believing agenda upon me. If you want to attack “someone forcing their agenda” on you then why not spend your energy (with equal zeal) on the gangster wannabes spray painting graffiti all over the public buildings? Now THERE is something that needs to be corrected.
            So sorry that the so-called mythological manger scene upsets you so. It must horrible to live such a sensitive life, afraid of the Christmas story. How do you react to Muslim beheadings?
            I’ll take the inspiring manger scene, the Star of David, Holy Cross, a Hindu shrine, Buddhist image or even the Masonic icon over what is representtative of REAL threats to your existence. Why attack the benign for your inflated fears and not the real threats to your freedom?
            As for the holiday greetings, I am not offended by any greetings that I know is a real wish for peace and happiness such as Happy Hannukah, Joyous Kwanzaa, Peace Be With You or Live Long and Prosper. Can’t you put aside your continuous ” vigilant guarding” of your perceived rights violations when people are trying to reach you in their own language? You are no better than the bigots that demand everyone speak American English in order to communicate. Get over yourself and learn to toleratet that which doesn’t hurt you.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – what “non-believing agenda” is that? I am not an Atheist.

            As for having a multitude of religious images around, I welcome that as well. The difficulty is that with the “Christian militants” (not the average Christian, obviously) they demand ONLY their beliefs be shown, NOT those of any other belief systems.

            Methinks maybe you misunderstood what I typed. Check it again.

          • Dennis

            I rechecked it and methinks you are deceptive and misleading in your statements. If you aren’t an atheist then why do you talk like one?
            I don’t know the “Christian militants” you refer to. I think you have been watching too many movies like “The Da Vinci Code”. I liked that movie too but only as fictional entertainment, not as accurate historical accounting.
            I am not a militant Christian and I resent those that assume I am trying to shove my belief down their throat. I don’t want to interfere with people’s God-given right to free will which means all of us are entitled to be wrong or right but it’s always for us to choose which path to take. I will not argue with your belief but I will not accept someone deriding my spiritual beliefs.

          • Dan Atatakai

            How is it I could be deceptive or misleading when all I am doing is making objective statements regarding Christian theology vs. militant Christianity, i.e., Westboro Baptist Church.

            FYI – DaVinci Code is a fiction movie, written by Dan Brown who, at best, is a mediocre mystery/fiction writer. What he wrote about is not even biblical.

            Maybe what is throwing you off is that, even though I am not a Christian, however I have studied, personally and academically, Christianity (as well as many other of the great theologies, both theistic and non-theistic), because what I state may conflict a bit with what you have for your personal beliefs? Please clarify your point by giving examples.

            I never claimed you were a militant Christian. It sounds as if your defensive mode is working overtime here! Just because I may have stated something which conflicts with your personal take on your faith-based belief, that does not mean I am attacking you.

            I look forward to your examples of how you think I am an atheist and/or how I am attacking you. If you have nothing to offer, thank you for your time.

          • Dennis

            Westboro Baptist Church is not typical of Christian churches and neither is the KKK who used the cloak of Christianity to cover their hideous actions.
            FYI – PLease read my comments on Dan Brown’s book (made into a movie) and you’ll find that I refer to it as FICTIONAL entertainment, not truth.
            I did not say that you called ME a militant Christian but I asserted that there aren’t enough “militant Christians” to even make any mention in intelligent debate. Neither did I say you were atheist, only that your language SOUNDS like one.
            I am not defensive but informative as you seem to have many misconceptions about Christianity that you claim to have studied personally and academically (is there a difference?) and that your claims conflict with my personal beliefs. No what you say conflicts with the truth. There is no such thing as militant Christianity. There is only Christianity. Anything outside of our Christian teachings is something else. Something Satanic, vicious and evil.
            I care little if you be atheist or Muslim or your believe in The Force. Believe whatever you like but don’t try to pee on my boots and tell me it’s raining with your misleading statements and inflammatory phrases.
            As for you attacking me? I don’t believe that I even hinted at that, did I? Even so I do not fear you so you can attack me if you so desire. Just use objective truths, not faulty logic based upon falsehoods to reach your desired end statement.

          • Sungoddess

            Well I for one am sick and tired of Christians trying to tell everyone how to live their lives when you don’t even follow your own bible because if you did you would be stoning people for just about everything and owning people would be cool you can believe what you want but when your crap gets incorporated into my life in the laws then it is a problem and yes i am a atheist who took the time to read the bible and all of the atrocities in it. Also the loudest Christians are mean bigots who use the bible to hurt other human beings

          • Dennis

            Sun Goddess: I think you have Christians confused with another belief system. We are not the stoning faith. For that you have to find a Muslim. If you are talking about the Holy Bible, then read it again and let me know where CHRISTIANS stoned anyone.
            I think you MAY have read the Bible but I doubt you were reading it objectively if all you got from it was vicious atrocities. That is in the Bible, yes, no doubt but it isn’t being promoted but to exemplify the lesson being shared.
            Which loud Christians have hurt your feelings or those of other human beings? Billy Graham? Rex Humbard? Joel Osteen? Joyce Meyer?
            My Bible warns us NOT to follow the words of MEN but to follow Jesus only. As in all things there are charlatans and false prophets sometimes uncovered in the Christian arena. Our pastors and ministers are there to assist us in finding Jesus not to lead us to God personally. God wants you to find your own way. Being taken by conniving hypocrites pretending to be men of God is an unfortunate reality in today’s world but it only serves to exemplify how much error and sin there is in men. Better to follow Jesus and The Word.

          • Anon

            “follow Jesus only”. hmmm.

            “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.”-Jesus

            I’m curious how you determine what words you follow and don’t.

            I don’t kill, but its not because god told me not to, but because i do not have any desire to inflict pain. If you cherry pick the bible and take what you want, how does that make you a good christian?

          • Dennis

            Who’s cherry picking? All of the Bible is good for you and guiding your life. I won’t follow you around to tell you this. You must seek when you are directed to do so. I am a Christian and I have killed (serving our country) do you think I am a bad Christian for that? The quote you provide puzzles me. What is significant about those words that somehow proves any point of yours? Jesus is instructing the [Christian] slaves (slavery being an inescapable reality of the time) to not revolt against their masters but to serve with a willing heart. Do you think advice is bad?

          • Sungoddess

            Yes i think that advice is bad because nobody should own and human being period i don’t care what color they are .

          • Anon

            First I want to thank you for your service to the country. I really hope that my being an atheist has come across as anti-american cause I am not.

            Do i think the advice of jesus telling the slaves to server with an open heart and not to revolt is bad advice? How in the world can you think that is good advice?

            How about jesus saying “THOU SHALL NOT OWN ANOTHER HUMAN BEING”. Seems like better advice to me.

            So what would have been your advice to the black slaves in america? Service their masters with an open heart and don’t revolt?

            Please understand i’m not calling you a racist. I don’t believe you are, i’m just making a point. I dont think you understood what you said by defending jesus’ words.

          • Sungoddess

            Loud Christians don’t hurt my feeling I look at them as the bigots that they are and how they preach all the BS while taking people’s money and living high on the hog while a lot of their followers can’t even pay their rent.as far as the bible goes yes their is stoning ,burning according to the bible god burned anyone who pissed him off ,killing firstborn children and you do know that if you work on the sabbath you should be put to death exodus 35:2 oh and don’t forget to kill your kids if they pissed you off . I can only go on what I read in your book don’t try to tell me it is all loving and fuzzy there is lots of violence ,rape and murder it is a horror story. If they makes you feel good fine but Christians should mind their business stop trying to dictate how other people should live their lives but indoctrinating my children in public school which I a atheist pay the same Taxes for is sharia if Christian children want to pray or read the bible in school nobody should stop them but to say that their needs to be a school wide prayer or bible study then I got a problem with that in most towns there are more churches then schools anyway the churches already get away tax free that’s a whole bother story

          • Sungoddess

            A whole other story excuse the typo,

          • Dennis

            No problem, I knew what you intended. I fat-finger the keyboards myself sometimes.

          • Dennis

            How can you know who is a bigoted Christian unless you have a miraculous gift to see inside the hearts of people so please spare me your self-righteous exaggerations. I don’t like the same people who have been PROVEN to be hypocrites and took money from people for selfish reasons over the advancement of God’s word.
            But there is a lot of money gifted in churches that goes to help orphans and needy overseas. My church has successfully funded missionaries in Africa that are not just spreading God’s Word but providing water, food, medicine, building schools, dormitories, shelters, hospitals and providing the doctors, medical staff and teachers to give these people not just good words but real tangible help in the name of Jesus. Are those Christian people deserving of your bigot allegations?
            Maybe you are judging the faith from your arm chair and simply “cherry-picking” (as someone accused us of doing) the verses in the Bible that you take from context to support your claims
            The Old Testament is named so for a reason. The New Testament teaches how God fulfilled his promise to bring evil men to him through love, sacrifice and salvation. Please don’t foolishly jump and skip around the Bible picking out what you like to harp on.
            And I pay taxes for the same schools that disallow

          • JC08

            Sungoddes, You have Islam mixed up with Christianity. So you think it’s horrible to have the 10 commandments incorporated into your laws huh. Then I suggest you get ready for the true stoners and beheaders, cause they’re already in our government changing our laws to Sharia laws!

          • Sungoddess

            No I actually I read the bible maybe you should too cause god was killing a whole lot of people drowning folks and stoning and if you need the Ten Commandments to tell you not to be a complete ass then that doesn’t say much about yourself I don’t need commandments to tell me not to screw over other people or rob or kill them or steal from them it called humanity being respectful of other human beings I don’t need a book to tell me that or some invisible whatever .by the way most atheist became atheist after reading the bible and if Christians followed the whole book and not just cherry picked the parts that they think make them feel warm and fuzzy there would be lots if blood shed a by today’s law lots of people in jail for rape and murder just to name few and if you need some help from me to help your find those point I would gladly give you a lesson on your bible so you ain’t gonna win that with me .

          • JC08

            You may read the bible, but you sure aren’t comprehending it. I’m not even going into a major bible study on this site with you. I got a whole other life than to argue the bible with you. I’m done with this conversations. You don’t even believe in God. So funny you think you can judge Him when you consider Him a figment of my imagination. Futility & vanity is all that’s coming out of your mouth.

          • JC08

            You did need to be taught morals when you were a child. Even some adults still need to be taught morals. I am glad you’re not one of them.

          • gomurr

            The fact that non-Christians chose to secularize a Christian, religious holiday, is not a reason to stop saying Merry Christmas. The holiday in question IS Christmas, after all, whether you like it or not. since you don’t seem to like it, perhaps you shouldn’t celebrate it. Other religions have holidays Christians don’t celebrate. I don’t hear them whining or demanding others make their holidays more “Christian friendly”.

          • Sungoddess

            Yes so I guess the wholly Christmas is about buying lots of presents,decorating trees I’m a atheist and I do that I like the pretty lights spending family time buy the way news flash Christmas is not the only holiday in December so happy holidays would be respectful and as far as Christians complaining about retailers saying happy holidays do you think they only want Christians money and if the holiday is so wholly whys everybody out in the stores doing all the secular stuff anyway so quit your whining.

          • gomurr

            Who’s whining, goddess. The fact that Christmas is, to many of us, a time to be with family and friends, or share with those that need one, just as you seem to feel, is what makes it a special time. I’m not bothered by people or shop owners wishing me happy holidays, nor do I know of anyone who is. It’s those who aren’t Christians, who seem to think people should stop saying Merry Christmas because it offends them, who are bothered. My point was, since the holiday in question IS Christmas, asking people to call it something else to placate them is ridiculous. You may celebrate to your hearts content, and I hope you have a lovely “holiday”, just don’t pretend it’s not Christmas, or expect Christians to do so.

            By the way, I wish my Jewish friends Happy Hanukkah, and they wish me Merry Christmas. No one is offended.

          • Dennis

            I demand nothing. Just leave Christians alone and you continue on you merry way IGNORING our superstitions, as you have insultingly called it.
            I am fine with Happy Holidays but you can’t stop me from saying Merry Christmas either. Or Happy Hanukah. Or Joyful Kwanzaa. Or whatever I like…

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – Yes, you demand nothing, except to have your beliefs. That is what others are going on as well.

            What superstitions are you talking about? Why should I not have conversation or involve myself with Christians? Are you thinking maybe I am attacking Christianity or Christians? I am not. I respect the theology. I am ONLY against those who DEMAND they have their displays and DEMAND to NOT have anybody else have their own.

            Regarding “Happy holidays”, the only reason that is used is when you do not know if a person is Christian or not. It is more INCLUSIVE. Is that a problem for you? I have never said you should NOT say “Merry Christmas” or any other greeting, did I.

            Do you have anything else you want to add to the “soup”?

          • Jo

            The FAKE holiday “kwanzaa” was invented by a violent 60′s radical and felon, Ron N. Everett (aka Ron Karenza). He was born on a poultry farm in Maryland, the 14th child of a Baptist minister. Al Sharpton promoted the “holiday” for the purpose of “de-whitizing” Christmas (ignoring the fact that Y’shua was Hebrew). There is nothing African about kwanzaa!

          • Jo

            Y’shua is the REASON for the Season… without Him, there would be no Christmas!

          • Dan Atatakai

            Jo – and yet, Jesus was not born on December 25th. Do you know WHY the church made December 25th Christmas?

            The greeting “Merry Christmas” IS appropriate if you are talking with another Christian, correct? What if that person is a Hindu or Jew or even Muslim? Is that appropriate, then?

          • Jo

            Yes, I do… for similar reasons that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday.

            Anyone celebrating Christmas, I bid “Merry Christmas” and to my Hebrew friends, “Happy Chanukah.” They bid me, Merry Christmas.”

          • Jo

            We are NOT a democracy… we are a Constitutional Republic under G-d!
            A democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
            A Republic is a well-armed lamb!

          • Dennis

            Jo – point taken! You are too funny!

          • Jo

            ;)

          • ckandersen

            Read the Constitution. Your rights come not from the State, but are inalienable rights endowed by the Creator. Be an atheist if you want, but if you accept that the State gives you your rights, you also must accept that the State can take them away. If your Creator gives you your rights, the State cannon restrict or remove those rights.

          • Dan Atatakai

            ckandersen – The question remains – WHICH Creator?

          • Dennis

            That’s the question that only YOU can answer for yourself. There can be only ONE unless you count the Holy Trinity as three. Whatever name to call Our Creator, he is what he is, The Almighty.

          • Jo

            The ONLY Creator… the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

            Our Constitution dated:
            Article VII
            “…done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth In Witness wereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,”

            The Founders’ declared that their work was done “in the Year of our
            Lord.” The Christian world dates all of human history in terms of the
            birth of Christ. “B.C.” means “before Christ,” and “A.D.” is the abbreviation for the Latin words anno Domini, meaning “year of our Lord.”

          • Anon

            Guess you havnt read the patriot act recently huh? Our rights are given by the state.

            You have a right to freedom, however If someone locks you in a cage you don’t have that right anymore do you?

            If you want to argue that while locked up you still have the right to be free, find go ahead. I’d rather not have the right to be free and be free, then have the right to be free and locked up.

          • sylviacroft

            There is a difference between “teaching” and preaching my dear. Yes, I and others want the freedom to be able to speak God’s Word in every public forum possible. “For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ for it is the power of salvation to every one who believes. To the Jew first and to the Gentile.” But, you don’t have to listen. No one will be beaten, killed, put in jail, or punished in any way for not listening. It is usually the Christians who get that treatment for daring to be public with their beliefs.

            That’s what the constitution guarantees you.

            Please don’t throw the Crusaders up to me. If it weren’t for the Crusaders all of Europe would be Muslim now. And at the time the Muslims were wiping out the Christians, that’s why the Crusaders got on their horses and went to war. Read about the town of Fez. The Muslim hordes rode into that small Christian town and murdered every man, woman, and child. There was so much blood in the streets the Muslims dipped their hats in it as a matter of bragging. That is where the “Red Fez” the Shriners wear comes from. Though many of them have no idea that the organization is based on many Muslim customs.

          • Anon

            I agree with you that there is a difference between “teaching” and preaching.

            I brought up teaching because I will not accept genesis being taught as fact to children; in the public school system. This does just go for Christianity, it goes for ALL religions.

            You have the right to say what you want to whomever you want. I stand by freedom of speech. I think thats important.

            Also you brought up the Crusades. I did not plan to. But it is nice to know that you can knowledge the bloody history of your church. Why you feel the need to justify it I do not understand. Why not just say “things were wicked in the past. Its not the way we are today”. However saying that it was okay to kill people because they didnt believe as the church did is wrong. No if, ands or buts about it.

          • JC08

            Any state religion enforced by the government on U S citizens. Now that’s all about to change soon once they get a few more Islamists in position, and they can start enforcing Sharia law. Then you wanna talk about religion being shoved down your throat, quite literally, with a blade until the blood spurts out.

          • Dennis

            Anon, any proof that the “vast majority” of our government is touting their religion? I haven’t detecting any religion at all in Washington, only corruption and cronyism and partisan politics as usual.
            Freedom to practice your OWN religion is not the same thing as FREEDOM FROM RELIGION which is what you demand. I can do as I like without impacting you at all and vice versa. What is wrong with a moment of silence in school or Memorial Day to observe whatever thoughts and beliefs that you want? If some pray, then fine. If they pray to Allah, Mohammed, Buddah or whatever then so be it. The atheists are against this formal “time out” for people to have a moment of reflection to ask for guidance or help or blessings for others.
            I would think there are bigger fish to fry beside trying grab headlines with the endless whining that someone is violating their rights? Sheesh!!! Someone needs to find a life. I wonder how many atheists have turned to St Jude’s Hospital for free medical help? Maybe the theists should found their own charities for atheists? Do they stand together to do ANYTHING positive for the community like a godless food bank or homeless shelter?

          • Sungoddess

            We do charity work we just don’t need to go around and preach about it I’m a chef and i donate my time to feed homeless people i just don’t see the need to put a label on it just i don’t except your fairy tale does not mean i don’t treat other human beings with respect i just don’t need a organized belief system to tell me to do that and i can speak for a lot of atheist again i do not care what your beliefs are but trying to make laws to fit you beliefs system is why we are up set example gay marriage it isn’t your business to tell someone how they should be happy and the whole marriage thing being biblical is nonsense it is a contract you cannot just go to church and be married so buy law my marriage is just as legal as yours .

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – why do you believe it is from your Christian deity? Did you ever learn how the Constitution was written? Who organized the structure of it? With a lot of input from others, Mr. Franklin (Benjamin type) took the structure of the equivalent of the constitution with the Five Great Tribes of the Americas (Iroquois) who were NOT Christian.

            Again, many of the qualities in the Constitution share qualities found in Christianity, but also are found in many OTHER religions and social orders as well. It is NOT from Christianity.

          • Dennis

            These values are shared between many faiths and religions which makes Christianity INCLUSIVE not exclusive in that respect!!

          • Dan Atatakai

            Dennis – I agree completely!

          • JC08

            If “their Creator” didn’t mean the Christian God Jehovah, then how do you explain the pervasive belief by the populace for the first 150 years that He’s exactly who they meant? I mean, look at our history. The very beginnings of public school education consisted exclusively on the King James Version of the bible. And a majority of our publicly acknowledged holidays are based on Christian holiday, until very recently. And the majority of the signers were Christians. So, oh, I don’t know, you tell me! I am old, and learned my history many, many years ago, before they started re-writing it, that’s how I know. And each year that goes by convinces me more and more that these types of discussion only need be held because the last 2-3 generations have been taught a twisted, at the very least, history of our country, and don’t have enough common sense left to know it!

          • JC08

            Yes, I am old enough to have been taught that in school, before they started re-writing history books. While some of the structure came from the Iroquois Indians, some also came from Rome, Greece, and France. However, that doesn’t mean they adopted other gods laws. Benjamin Franklin was a Puritan (Protestant), and studied and believed the Hebrew bible. The Puritans fled European subjection to Catholicism, and wanted to ensure American’s would not be forced to practice any one religion (Catholicism). So, the “God” in the 1776 draft was the Hebrew God the Puritans accepted as their God. Even though some, who had left the Christian faith objected, it was settled that despite individual differences, these men professed a belief in God as
            the Creator of the universe and believed that religion encouraged a
            moral citizenry, which they deemed essential to the success of the new
            republic.

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – Maybe you are thinking of William Penn. Mr. Franklin was not Puritan, but atheist.

            You ASSUME that the God in the 1776 (maybe you mean Creator?) is the God of Abraham, but given you do not even understand the source of your claim and believe that the US Constitution is a Christian document, I think we had better stop now.

            Do you really think one needs a theistic, faith-based belief to be moral?

          • ScarletPimpernil

            No less important is, I am the government [of men] known as The State of Washington. I share that with many others in that country. All else is MERELY “representative” government.

          • francie26

            That old separation nonsense was taken from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote, not meaning that they can’t co-mingle at all, but rather, that the state cannot force us to believe anything, religious or otherwise. But beyond that, almost all the founders were highly Christian men, although there was a highly valued Jewish contingent. And beyond that one letter, nothing else, not the constitution, not the declaration of independence, nothing, nada, says we have to keep all religion out of politics. They, our founders didn’t do that, and they didn’t mean for us to do it, either.

          • MidnightDStroyer

            The Constitution does NOT say “separation” of Church & State. It says that Government will NOT disparage or grant additional privileges to any religion. It’s NOT to put a divider between Church & State, but a stance of NEUTRALITY.

            Anon is the one who needs to pay attention to detail…

          • Anon

            I’m not exactly sure how you just made a point? You then agree like I do that government should look at EVERY church as being equal. Not favoring one over the other.

          • Dennis

            This seems true but this isn’t what you were purporting, Anon.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Anon – not only every church as being equal, but also every synagogue, every mosque, every meeting house, and other religious organization. Christianity does not get ANY special benefits from the government, is what it says. So yes, you must also give the same status to a mosque as to your church.

          • Dennis

            And who says they don’t?

          • JC08

            Dan.The government should not be giving status to any church. They are over stepping their bounds when they do.Bill
            of Rights Amendment I
            Congress shall
            make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
            thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
            the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress
            of grievances.
            They also are overstepping their bounds when they are removing crosses, etc, from sites where the people determined they should be. That is the free exercise thereof.
            But back to the subject. Obama is overstepping federal bounds given in the constitution by threatening the governors with blow back if they do their job and protect their states from tyranny!

          • JC08

            No, Anon, that’s not what it says. It says government should stay out of the business of people’s faith period.
            Bill
            of Rights Amendment I
            Congress shall
            make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
            thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
            the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress
            of grievances.

          • KellyCraig

            Sadly, educated parrots claim the founding documents prohibit all religion, such that it went from protecting the right to prohibiting it [in schools, etc.].

            The truth is as you indicted, [representative] government cannot obstruct our establishment and exercise (e.g., prohibit our teachers and kids from having Bibles in school), though it may prohibit those using our resources from using them to promote any religion.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Teachers and administrative staff may also NOT lead any form of religious ceremonies. Prayer is fine in class, however. I used to see it at the beginning of every class I would teach, just before midterms and final exams.

          • JC08

            When my son was in 4th grade, they started reading books that were highly suggestive of the new age movement teachings. Now my son couldn’t refer to Jesus in his essay, but was forced to sit and read new age teachings. The only way it was stopped, was for my son only with a demand letter from me to not teach my son any religion. At which time they singled him out and made him leave the room every time they read new age stuff. So, as much as some people claim Christianity is shoved down their throats, it is not, and hasn’t been for well over a century.

          • JC08

            And even now we are fighting SCOPE and COMMON CORE that teach Muslim religious beliefs to children. And I mean to the point of making the girls wear burkas and facing mecca. And this is coming out of this government. So it’s not that they don’t condone religion, just not Christianity. Even though for century’s God moral laws were taught to build kids with integrity. And the Federal gov. was not given authority over the education system in the constitution. It was left up to the states. Sadly the 10 commandments has been replaced now thanks to the athiests, and we see the moral decline in the masses of society. Why else do you think we’re seeing punch out attacks, an increase in children killing parents and siblings, etc. Because we replaced the good book with a-moral teachings.

          • Dan Atatakai

            JC08 – What “new age” teachings? Those who are attacking seem to have difficulty with being specific.

          • JC08

            Dan. What do you want? The name of the books they used in the class? Give me a break. Go find some teaching on New Age, and that’s what I mean.

          • Dennis

            Amen brother!

          • Michael Rocker
          • JC08

            Ah, the NWO definition. Well, here’s the U S Constitution definition. Bill
            of Rights
            Amendment I
            Congress shall
            make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
            thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of
            the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress
            of grievances.

          • sylviacroft

            There is nothing about a separation of church and state in our Constitution. There is in the Russian Constitution.

          • CaptainDLW

            The separation of Church and state did not have anything to do with what is being taught today. The founding fathers were saying that the states could not chose which religion or denomination the people in the state had to chose. That is why we have a secular government that uses Christian ” MORALS” as a guide.

          • razzy1492

            Anon: Its not very clear to you. Separation between church and state is a christian principle. Jesus said give to Cesar what belongs to Cesar and to God what belongs to God. Separation does not mean that government can infringe on freedom of religion The state can not outlaw the expression of ones belief in God anywhere

          • Anon

            razzy: You making a connection to your bible is completely ambiguous.
            Also, who is calling for the outlaw of belief? I sure am not, and neither is the government. If it came down to it, I would fight for yours, or anybody’s, right to practice any religion they want.
            Government CANNOT endorse one religion over another. I hope you see why this is important.

          • razzy1492

            Anon; I have to reference the bible because the topic you brought up is about religion
            Obviously you did not read my comment carefully. I did not say that government can or should endorse a religion. The Obama regime and liberal atheist are trying to curtail our religious freedoms.
            If you are willing to fight for freedom of religion you better start fighting the atheists and Obama.

          • Anon

            Perhaps there is a small group of people that are interested in eradicating religion. Though that is not popular.

            I do not speak for athiests I only speak for myself. I am very happy that there are people of many faiths and would fight for people to continue to believe what they do.

            However I would not accept ANY religious teachings, or preaching for that matter, in any place that is paid for by tax payers. Schools, government institutions etc. are no place for religion.

            Religion is a personal thing. Keep it that way. If you want your kids to be raised christian, then please go ahead.

            Where you will find outrage is when religious teachings halt the advancement of society. As is the case with a literal interpretation of the bible and the rejection of evolution. Or that these same teachings promote bigotry or inequality. As is the case with same sex marriage.

            Believe what you want. I dont know anyone trying to stop what you believe. However we all live in the same country. We are all going to have different views and opinions. we have to sift through those and find what works best for the country to advance and allow for a more stable society.

            Your great book does not hold the answers. I will acknowledge that there are some good things in the bible. That does not mean that the answers stop there.

          • razzy1492

            your not getting informed on current events concerning atheist activists. America was the greatest nation in the world before the breakdown of morality in the american culture, caused by relativism liberalism and statists. and atheist activists, who want special rights. You can not Keep God in a box, who is the creator of all that is. without God you would not be able to breath. Your opinion is just that. Who cares what you think? You shouldn’t care what I think if I were speaking of my own opinion, But you should listen to what God has to say and that you find in the bible. and in nature and your conscience if you still have one.

          • Anon

            The USA is a religious country in terms of its populace. Have you taken a look at places that do not have a strong faith. Sweden, Denmark etc.

            I put God in a box and i breathe just fine. Breathing as I speak with you now.

            I do not understand why you have such a hard time accepting that I do not believe what you do. With that mindset, it is clearly you that are helping with the division you seem to see so clearly.

          • razzy1492

            I accept just fine that you do not believe like I do, thats why we’re debating. You breath just fine and the sun shines every day, things beyond your control. Who do you thank for these blessings you take for granted? So what is so great about sweden and Denmark? I don’t know if sweden and Denmark are better off then we are but what does that prove? A country without faith in God will be judged by God the supreme judge. Our mind sets are different because we serve different masters. I serve God, who do you serve?

          • Anon

            Who do I thank for these blessings? Sun shines everyday. Yeah, the sun is also responsible for skin cancer. For sure almight god with his limitless power could have taken that out of the equation.

            This is not to say that I do not appreciate the sun or the air I breathe. Of course I do, without It I would not be alive. However if someone tells me that these things were designed then I am going to critique it’s makeup. If you were to say to me “god is great but not perfect” then the fact that the sun can cause cancer would make sense. As it was created by an entity that can make mistakes. However if god is perfect this wouldn’t be the case. For sure I can’t be better than god but at the same time if I could create a sun it wouldn’t cause cancer.

            I don’t serve anybody. That’s the point. Can you please demonstrate to me why it’s a good thing to have a “master”?

            My point about Sweden and Denmark was that a country without god, as apparent in the above mentioned countries, can thrive just fine.

          • Jo

            Swedish Queen Gyrid Olafdottir was Christian. She married Viking King Harold “Bluetooth” Gormsson and converted him to Christianity and he, in turn, proclaimed that all of Denmark would become Christians! Somewhere, y’all got lost along the way…

          • Sungoddess

            They are happier people.

          • Dennis

            So what about airports or street corners that are public venues and maintained by public funding?

          • JC08

            That’s the lie Anon, religion is not a personal thing, it’s a very lifestyle that Christian’s have a right to practice very publicly, anywhere, anytime. Just because the state bought a property, doesn’t give them the right to curtail my right to free speech, as long as it’s not hurting, deeming, or falsely accusing anyone else. So, unless your ears catch on fire when I pray to Jesus on the courthouse steps, or out loud in my classroom, just bear it man, just like I can’t stop you from saying out loud in my presence that you don’t believe in my God. C’mon man, what ever happened to just plain courtesy for others, and live and let live? I lived up north for many decades, and I don’t agree with the athiest, the Menonite, the Amish beliefs, but I would never, ever, attempt to stop their right from expressing their beliefs, as long as it didn’t hurt or infrings on me expressing mine. The athiests have taken it way too far, and are nothing more than junk yard bully’s that are gonna step on whatever freedom they have to to get their way. It’s called extreme selfishness.

          • Sungoddess

            Im a atheist and i don’t care what you belief or worship i do not want it interfering in my life changing the laws because you think some god said it that is the problem i don’t want my kids forced in to reading the bible in school there are more churches than schools indoctrinate your children there i want my children to learn science math english etc and if you think reading genisus to children in school won’t give them nightmares?

          • razzy1492

            Sungoddess: The sun was created by God so the sun can not be a goddess. I don’t care what you believe or worship either. The ones seeking to change the laws are atheist, secularists and statists. We were a great country till your kind began to actively change things. If your kids do not read the bible they will not be considered to have a well rounded education, the bible is a history book it’s the most accurate history book there is. The most science friendly book is the bible. it is compatible and compliments science. After all science means knowledge, knowledge given by an omniscient God.Today most Government schools are indoctrinating our kids to be patsies for the government. Home schooled kids study Genesis and they are the most well adjusted individuals. That is well documented.

          • Dennis

            I agree. Then it would seem that the Congress should make a law to allow every religion or belief to have ONE national holiday off to observe their own “special” day. Everone should select their own day to make an observance. However, if the atheists believe in nothing then they get no days off. How does that sound?

          • Robert Whitlow

            Do you realize how many religions there are that the federal government recognizes? Very little work would ever get done.

          • Dennis

            As if any work is getting done now…

          • KellyCraig

            Interesting facts about law and the Christian religion:

            1) One could write a lengthy book about the laws, local, state and federal, that quote or otherwise look to the Bible.

            2) Marriage was ordained by God and, as has been noted herein, we, the government, ordained that our representative government cannot obstruct our religious exercises.

            Licenses are a permission to do what, otherwise, would be illegal. Marriage licenses are defined in law dictionaries (remember, it would be ludicrous to change the definition after the fact), such as Black’s Fourth. There, regarding such licenses, it tells you to see “miscegenation,” which was the basis for the first license (to allow two of different races to marry, which was illegal in that day).

          • Robert Whitlow

            Kelly: With all due respect the marriage is a secular contract governed by common law, and subject to no religious affiliation. This is why one must file the license with the state, and to break the contract the parties are required to present their cases, not to a church official, to a secular court run by the state.

          • razzy1492

            Marriage was instituted and defined by God and its between one man and one woman, and it has been since the beginning of time.

          • Robert Whitlow

            Razzy: The ignorance displayed by my fellow country men is truly astounding. The utter lack of cognitive thought contained within your post gives me a sense of utter disappointment with any deity requiring such total lack of knowledge from its followers. The actual legal marriage as it is known in the United States is governed by the laws of the individual stares. It is controlled by the states, enforced by the states, and can be severed by the states. Why do you think there is a LEGAL process of divorce? If the state of matrimony were defined by God within the boundaries of the USA then the only provision for divorce would be in the case of adultery. Then upon a finding of guilt for that adultery the offending party would be stoned to death. Polygamy would be a legality, as would be marriage to a child as long as they had reached the age where the girl has experienced her first menstrual cycle.

          • razzy1492

            Our relationship with God is based on grace. So no stoning is allowed. You bring up legalities. unconstitutional laws should not be obeyed or laws that force us to break Gods laws, God instituted marriage as one man and one woman from the beginning of time. That is the definition of marriage. What gives any one the right to change that?

          • JC08

            Yes, the states found a way to charge a tax (oops fee) to those that don’t believe in Gods institution of marriage. That’s all that was.

          • Jo

            Marriage was ordained by G-d, but the license was instituted by the state to afford certain “legal” rights and to protect the property of the surviving spouse, in the event of death of their loved one.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Where is the command that there is a wall of separation between church and state written in US documents.?

          • Sungoddess

            Who cares would you like sharia law here? if you do move to the middle east I don’t want to be forced into your nonsense believe what you want but when it starts infringing on my rights as a human being to live in this country and be happy its a problem.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Are you aliterate? Did I say or imply ANYTHING about Shria Law or for that matter, Islam?

          • JC08

            It’s not.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            You’re quite correct. It was in a letter between Jefferson and the Danbury CT Baptist Association which asked for his help because of problems they had with Connecticut. Jefferson was saying the State couldn’t under the Constitution to interfere with a church.

            Despite progressive contentions, while the state can’t interfere with churches, the churches can be involved in the public arena, including politics.

            The only reason most churches today can’t become involved in politics is because most have signed a Faustian Bargain, a binding contract, with the Infernal Retribution Sackers (IRS) and accepted 501(c)3 tax exempt status.

          • Jo

            You have Lyndon B Johnson to thank for that!

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Thanks for the info. You’re correct and you raise some interesting facts about the tax exempt status for churches and their institutions.

            The 501(c)(3) status for churches came about in 1954 thanks to then Senator LBJ. Before that donations to churches were considered tax‑deductible under the old English common law, the Law of Charities.

            The 501(c)3 status was “supposed” to protect churches through incorporation so they couldn’t be sued. Of course that hasn’t been the case.

          • JC08

            I have been advised that the IRS 501(c)3 in fact does not prevent politics in the pulpit, but rather it is the preacher’s decision.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Who advised you? Here’s info from the IRS website with emphasis by me:

            The Restriction of Political Campaign Intervention by Section 501(c)(3) Tax-Exempt Organizations

            Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are ABSOLUTELY PROHIBITED (emphasis mine) from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of(or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favorof or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly VIOLATE THE PROHIBITION against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

            Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities
            (including presenting public forums and publishing voter education
            guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited
            political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not be prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner. (THIS PROVISION HAS ALREADY BEEN VIOLATED BY THE IRS)

            Onthe other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited
            participation or intervention. (EXCUSE USED TO VIOLATE ABOVE PROVISION WHEN IT’S CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATIONS PUTTING OUT INFO)

            ________________________________

            In addition, liberal/progressive/leftist candidates despite complaintshave been permitted routinely by the IRS to actually campaign from the pulpit on Sundays especially from liberal black churches by people like the Rev. Jackson.

          • Dennis

            Really? Separation of church and state was clearly intended to prevent the establishment of a national religion as was the case in England. It doesn’t mean the church and state can not interact.

            For example, the welfare and charity of disadvantaged used to be the sole responsibility of the church with little assistance from the federal government. Today we have a mixture of sources for assistance from the feds and other charities, some are church based.

            You and others that think like you have distorted the words and meaning of what the Constitution says. How else would we have national holidays based upon significant Christian observances like Christmas ?

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Really? Why are you afraid to answer my question?

          • Dennis

            I am sorry, Roberto, I didn’t realize it wasn’t your question that I was answering. There is no “wall” of separation and no command thereof. The so-called “separation of church and state” is a paraphrase interpretation of the Constitutional words that there will be no national church or religion, like the one in England. The government will not favor nor endorse any faith, belief or religious agenda over any other. That said, the Founders were nearly all Christians but they held a strong belief, as I do, that all men (and women) are free to pursue their faith as they choose. Conversely the inverse is also true. There will be no persecutions nor sanctions held against any particular belief that prejudice its followers who choose to follow that pursuit. Its all about the freedom

          • JC08

            ‘The wall of separation’ is the NWO interpretation. That’s why it doesn’t fit our 1st Amendment at all. But those that don’t want our government to reflect the will of Christian people at all attempted very hard to make it replace our 1st Amendment.
            God help our children when the old ones die off, and all they have to find are the twisted and re-written history on google!

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Dennis, that’s quite alright. I think the way the response system is set up sometimes leads to confusion. I’ve done the same, including here.

            I agree strongly with your position about there being no wall of separation in any government document. The phrase comes from a letter by Jefferson to an Danbury CT Baptist organization asking for his help against CT persecution of the group which as you said many paraphrase, albeit incorrectly.

            Jefferson sided with the Baptists in saying the separation was the government couldn’t interfere in the practice of their religion. But it was a one way street. The church was permitted to participate in the public square, including the political arena. It was all about freedom for everyone.

            All that prohibits that now is the Faustian Bargain many churches have made with the Infernal Retribution Sackers (IRS) it get 501(c)3 status.

            You’re quite correct that the church and state can interact. It’s the prohibition of establishing a national religion or recognizing one that’s prohibited. As you correctly point out, the Framers wanted to avoid the mistakes made in England, and also in Europe that as we know led to many persecutions and even wars.

            Thanks for your response.

            Bob

          • JC08

            We have national holidays based upon Christian observances because it was the people’s choice to have them. What I am seeing is a forgetfulness that the federal government is supposed to reflect the will of the people, not the other way around, as is the direction it’s going in to force us into the NWO governance, and do away with our constitution and rule of government completely.

          • Jo

            Somebody REALLY needs to take Barry’s pen away from him!

          • LarryBassett

            “The separation of church and state” notion as interpreted by many today is a result of a Justice Hugo Black opinion during his tenure on the US Supreme Court.
            Constitutionally we simply have protection from an enforcement of the ESTABLISHMENT of a government religion imposed upon all citizens such as The Church of England, an OFFICIAL state religion.

          • Dennis

            Exactly!

          • JC08

            Yes, but we also have the right to free exercise of our religion without interference from the feds also. Something they have trampled repeatedly in the past 50 years.

          • lowercaselettersonly

            ‘the separation between church and state” simply means that the ‘state’ the government. cannot tell you which religion to follow. It does not mean that religion cannot be heard or followed anywhere but on the street. The liberals have beat that to death and here we are. My personal opinion is that when they took God out of our schools they let the Devil in, that goes for most of our country right now. Even if your parents were remiss in teaching right from wrong, when religion was allowed in the schools you learned it there, no more we just allow kids to decide what is right and wrong on their own. The rest of us and our children suffer.

          • Anon

            The point is WHICH religion do you allow to be taught in school? The government picking one would imply is favors one over the other. That is the first problem. Why would christians have the right over another church. And while on that, WHICH christian denomination. So many at this point.

            Also, if you want the teaching of right from wrong to be the responsibility of the school system, why use the bible? Some wicked stuff in there. Why not just teach right from wrong and leave god out of it?

          • lowercaselettersonly

            I don’t necessarily want a school to teach religion, I want them to teach morals and values and praying to God or whom ever a child believes in is not wrong. I understand that you do not believe in any higher power, good for you, you can live that way. Just leave the rest of us alone. You and other athiest are being intolerant of everyone else and how they wish to live their lives. It is truly none of your business unless you are physically attacked or robbed from based on our beliefs. How exactly are you hurt by Christianity or any other religion. Now when Islam decides everyone else should die or convert then and only then are atheist hurt. If you don’t believe in a higher power at the time others are trying to express that they do, just meditate or hum or pray to your other athiest friends, or Mother earth, just let us do our thing as well. Because there is prayer in a court house, state house, school, university doesn’t take anything away from your belief, but your trying to stop us, takes ours away. STOP go on with your life as you see it should be lived and leave us alone.

          • Dennis

            The “wicked stuff” you mentioned in the Bible is all a depiction of the evil inherent in men. God is not evil or wicked but gives us the choice to pick our own course to follow.

          • JC08

            Anon, the Christian bible (King James Version, but now there are many in modern english to use), which coincidentally was the one taught for the first 200 years in our public schools.

            “Why not just teach right from wrong and leave god out of it?” Because they’re not, they’re teaching Islam and A-morality, meaning, either learn the Muslim’s religion, or be a religion and a law all unto yourself. See the set up yet?

          • ckandersen

            No, it is not clear. There is no such division in the Constitution. The Constitution specifically stated that the Federal government could not institute a State religion (which is what many early colonists were fleeing from in England). The Constitution does NOT establish a “wall of separation” between church and State, but rather insures that the Federal government could not persecute someone for not belonging to a specific church. It was only later that the “supremacy” clause was interpreted as also restricting the various States from having a State religion. Furthermore, the founding fathers did adhere to Christian beliefs (read some of Jefferson’s letters), and felt that the Republic would only survive if the populace was of a moral character.

          • Dennis

            No, no…it isn’t clear, Anon. There is no place where the phrase separation of church and state is written. What is written is there will be no official national religion or beliefs. Americans are free to pursue their choice of religion, belief, faith or a lack thereof. Christian standards and values are INCLUSIVE of the original intent of the American founders, not exclusive. There is a big difference in what you claim and what is real.

          • Dennis

            Anon, you keep repeating that trite phrase: “the separation of church and state is very clear.”
            I would agree but it says nothing what you are inferring it does. Maybe you can enlighten us with you interpretation, in your own words. Explain it as best you can…

          • Anon

            Sure thing,

            in my statement that you are responding to i said it was important to look at how secular the founding fathers were in their approach in separating church and state.

            While it is true that Christianity was and is prevalent in the united states, it will still receive no unique privilege.

            The founding fathers were very observant at how much power religion held; and the dangers that followed if one were to deviate from religion’s grasp.

            With that came ideas that it would be better to keep the power with the people, rather than the oppressive nature of the church.

            In being part of this forum for the last couple of days I have noticed how much people refuse to acknowledged their church’s history. Not to say that I think the church is half as bad now as it was in the past. However it would be nice if someone said “yeah, maybe god shouldn’t have killed everything but what made it to the boat”. “Maybe he shouldn’t have tested someone to kill their child”. Instead all i see is justifications for atrocities that under any other circumstance it would not be allowed.

            Everyone can happily believe what they want, however they cannot get away from what their church used to be. The fact that we are a secular nation is a good thing. The fact that we didnt get the church shoved down our throats is a good thing.

          • Jo

            G-d was perfect in His decision to destroy all those who were not on the boat. The Nephilim had corrupted much the DNA (of man and beast). G-d’s plan required an undefiled genetic line from Adam to Moshiach (Messiah), for the payment of man’s sins. Only by the destruction of such evil, would Noah’s line remain pure.

          • Kenyan Mocker

            Yes, separation of church and state. The state (Govt) can not decree one particular religion as the official religion of the nation. It nowhere states that religion can’t participate in the actions of the state.

          • Jo

            Separation of Church and State is NOT in the Constitution… but separation of powers is. Our Constitution promotes freedom OF religion…not freedom from religion.

            This Country was founded by Christian men, most of whom were ministers. Our Founding Fathers emphasized Christian faith and morality: “Virtue… Learning… Piety.” These words are found throughout our official documents and statements of our Founders. Sometimes, they are called “Morality,” “Knowledge,” and “Religion,” such are found in the Northwest Ordinance.

            “Religion” meant Christianity. “Morality” meant Christian character. “Knowledge” meant a Biblical worldview. These were consistently emphasized by our Founders as the indispensable foundation or supports of our system of government. If they are lost… then our nation will eventually collapse!

            “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.” ~John Adams

            “…By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion. Our laws and institutions must necessarily be based upon the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian…. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation… that this is a Christian nation. We are founded to legislate, propagate, and secure Christianity.” ~the Supreme Court, 1892

            “Religion is deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support. The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights. The Bible is the cornerstone of liberty; … students perusal of the sacred volume will make us better citizens.” ~Thomas Jefferson

            “Without a humble imitation of the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion… we can never hope to be a happy nation.” ~George Washington, 1783

            “Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to a political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. They are the essential pillars of society.” ~George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

            The Father of the American Revolution was Samuel Adams, who said that to change any age in which we live we must simply “study and practice the exalted virtues of the Christian system.”

            “While the people are virtuous, they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader… If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great Security.” ~Samuel Adams.

            “The only assurance of our nation’s safety is to lay our foundation in morality and religion.” ~Abraham Lincoln

            Many people have the mistaken belief that our Constitution requires complete neutrality toward religion. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our Constitution establishes us as a nation “under G-d” in a variety of ways, but especially in Article 6.

            Article 6 deals with supremacy. In paragraph one it declares that the national government had supreme responsibility for debts. In paragraph two it declares the Constitution to “be the supreme law of the land,” but then in paragraph three it declares G-d to be supreme over both our laws and our leaders: “all… officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath…” taken, of course, with their hand on the Bible.

            The Constitution goes even further in its recognition of Christianity and Biblical law in Article 1, Section 7, Paragraph 2, where the President has “Sundays excepted” for deciding on legislation. A Senate Committee on the Judiciary commented on this provision in 1853:

            In the law, Sunday is a ‘dies non’; it cannot be used for the services of legal process, the return of writs, or other judicial purposes. The executive department, the public establishments, are all closed on Sundays; on that day neither House of Congress sits;… Here is a recognition by law, and by universal usage, not only of a Sabbath, but of the Christian Sabbath, in exclusion of the Jewish or mahammedan Sabbath;… The recognition of the Christian Sabbath [by the Constitution] is complete and perfect.

            The final recognition of Christianity in the Constitution itself is found in the two-fold date employed by our Founders in Article 7: “… in the year of our Lord 1787, and of the independence of the United States of America the 12th.” Our Founders dated this document in this way to deliberately recognize the two most significant sources of authority to our Constitution: the birth of Christ and the birth of Independence. Indeed, Scripture has said that “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” ~2Corinthians 3:17

            The Constitution guarantees our freedom OF religion (as opposed to freedom from religion):

            “No power over the freedom of religion [is]… delegated to the United States by the Constitution;… All lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, and were restored, to the states, or to the people.” ~Thomas Jefferson, 1798

            “In matters of religion I… have left them, as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of the church or state authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies.” ~Thomas Jefferson, 1805

            “I consider the government of the United states as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises… it must then rest with the states as far as it can be in any human authority.” ~Thomas Jefferson, 1808

            “It can not be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! FOR THIS VERY REASON, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” ~Patrick Henry

            The Christian religion, Christian Virtue, and a Biblical Worldview are the “Spirit of the Constitution” — the power behind our form of government.

            Thomas Jefferson never promoted the concept of a secular state. Secularism is, in itself, a religion and an intolerant one at that! It does not concede that any other religious perspective can be promoted in public and it calls upon the government to enforce it’s beliefs. “Pluralism” today, although a Christian idea originally, now claims to protect the freedom of all religions, but this is a farce. There is one religion which does not have free exercise — Christianity.

            Try as they might, secularists can not negate that this Country was founded on Biblical principles. Look at the signs throughout our nation’s buildings… the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Courthouse, for instance. No matter how much they may want to remove the influence of Christianity from public life, no matter how heterogenous or diverse we become, they have no real constitutional grounds for demanding the banishment of Christianity until an amendment is passed to that effect.

            You simply cannot take parts of the Constitution you like and ignore the others. That’s how we got into this mess… the greed of those who don’t have any morals or ethics about them and could care less about what freedoms they’re taking away from you and me and the rest of us hardworking American people.

          • lakeside227

            “In paragraph two it declares the Constitution to “be the supreme law of the land,” but then in paragraph three it declares G-d to be supreme over both our laws and our leaders: “all… officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath…” taken, of course, with their hand on the Bible.”

            Article VI

            “The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

            The Constitution DOESN’T mention the Bible. Nor does it declare God to be supreme over our laws or the people we elect to SERVE us. Furthermore it does NOT specify that the oath must be taken with a hand on the Bible. Did you deliberately leave out the REST of para 3?

            “NO RELIGIOUS TEST shall ever be required…”

          • Jo

            No, I didn’t deliberately leave it out. You are right… there is no religious test and the Bible is not mentioned in the Constitution. However, MOST of our presidents have taken their Oath with their hand on the Bible (some presidents used 2 Bibles, or a book of Law representing the Constitution, or a Roman Catholic missal, while Teddy Roosevelt did not use a Bible). Every president I have witnessed taking the Oath, HAS used the Bible. Another tradition many presidents observe, is to kiss the Bible or say a prayer.

          • Jo

            “Nor does it declare God to be supreme over our laws or the people we elect to SERVE us.”

            Our Government derives their power from the consent of the people, as stated in our Declaration of Independence:
            “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

          • lakeside227

            Again, so what?

            This quote from the DoI in no way supports your claim that the Constitution declares God to be supreme over our laws and our elected officials.

            “Our Constitution establishes us as a nation “under G-d” in a variety of ways, but especially in Article 6.”

            No, it doesn’t. There is no mention of God, Christ, the Bible, or religion in Article VI.

          • lakeside227

            Why make this false claim then?

            “…but then in paragraph three it declares G-d to be supreme over both our laws and our leaders…”

            “However, MOST of our presidents have taken their Oath with their hand on the Bible…”

            So what? They swore by the Bible because it meant something to them. However, the Constitution is our supreme law – not the Bible.

          • guest 1

            Very well said, Jo.

          • Jo

            Thank you…

          • fstookey

            Thank you JC08. I have been waiting for someone like you to come forward with the ACTUAL truth on the subject.

          • Benjamin Reynolds
          • sylviacroft

            Anon, you need to read some of their writngs and the original founding documents. Even those who were not Evangelicals had a strong belief (even if only intellectual) in Jesus Christ and all our laws are based on the Bible.

          • Anon

            All of our laws?
            If you’re making the argument that people read the bible and cherry picked ideas that were thought to be good and implemented them as laws, for arguments sake I will agree with you.
            However, you’ll still have the problem that many things in the bible are not original. So really we borrowed our laws from older civilizations.
            Furthermore, laws are made in the hopes to create a more stable society. If all we did was look at the bible for guidance in the creation of laws, we would be a very different state than we are today.
            You and I right now could have thought of rules that are not in the bible that maybe should be enacted for the good of the people. By doing that we think outside the box, box being the bible.

          • sylviacroft

            I am sorry for your ignorance. You’ve got plenty of arrogance but not much wisdom. One day you’ll know the truth, but it may be too late to set you free…

          • Anon

            was that a “you’re going to hell unless you find jesus” statement?

          • sylviacroft

            I only speak the truth. The truth doesn’t change just because someone doesn’t accept it. You can believe you can drive your car into a brick wall at 150 mph and walk away without a scratch, but the truth is you’re gonna be dead and it doesn’t matter what you believe

          • Robert Whitlow

            Sylvia: If truth does not change then please explain why God felt the need to alter his covenant? Change his law? Why was early Hebrew polytheist, but now claim Yahweh is a lone deity? There are many changes contained within the bible, Satan being an adversary is but one of them.

          • sylviacroft

            Robert, God did not change anything. In the Old Testament all of the sacrifices, and furniture in the tabernacle were all patterns of the real thing intended to reveal who Jesus was when he came. Everything they did under the Old Testament law was a picture of Christ and of the real thing in heaven. The sacrifices were to teach the people that sin requires death. Everytime they made a sacrifice to God they were in a picture confessing their sin and that death was the payment. In the New Testament it says that the law was like a school master designed to lead them to Christ. It was always a reminder we were sinners. Under the new covenant, Jesus fulfilled all those shadows in the Old Testament. That’s why the sacrifices ceased. Jesus died once for all and for all time. And not only did He pay the price for sin (death), He also delivered us from the power that sin held over us and from the fear of death. It was all in God’s plan to teach us first and then to reveal the real thing. It’s almost like someone giving you the title to a piece of property with a nice home on it. You know it’s yours, the title is a promise of it, but it’s only a shadow. When you get to take possession of the real thing it’s wonderful, it’s the fulfillment of the promise. God never changes. He only works His plan in His time, according to His will.

          • Robert Whitlow

            There is far more than the sacrifices you speak of that required a change from the old to new testament. In Isiah god states all one needs for salvation is to ask. Satan becoming an adversary required a change since Yahweh stated that he created good, and he created evil. There is no other, he is the Alpha and Omega.

          • Anon

            The difference is you can show me what happens to a person that slams into a brick wall at 150 MPH. you cannot however show me one person that has been to hell.

            Most of the replies to my post on this forum have been civil. Differences in opinions can be expressed without the threat of torture.

            However i do find it funny that the threat of hell is continually thrown around to non-believers. I do not accept the existence of a place you refer to as hell. Knowing that, how can a threat impact me in any way? Just as if were to say to you that nothing happens when you die, it would not phase you. as you know you’re going to the pearly gates.

          • sylviacroft

            Anon, it really was not a threat. More FYI. Of course what I was really referring to was that you would meet Him face to face. It will be either a glorious thing or a fearful thing according to how well you get to know Him while you’re here. It’s a wonderful thing to know Him. He created us for a love relationship with Him. Not just for time, but for all eternity. I don’t understand how anyone could turn an opportunity like that down. The God of the universe loves each of us so much He gave His own Son to pay the penalty for our sin. Wow!

          • Anon

            There you go again making assertions without evidence.

            But I’m sorry, God and I don’t see eye to eye. I don’t enjoy to see people suffer pain by being tortured. If I wanted to forgive the sins of people I would just do it. WITHOUT human sacrifice.

            Furthermore, if you can think in your head of a situation where you would give up a child of yours to be tortured, please do let me know so I can call child services.

          • KellyCraig

            Back to the fun: A study of hell shows it came out of sheol, the common grave, so yes, we are all going to hell.

          • Dennis

            Believe it or not, you make the choice that you must live with. Sylvia is simply saying what she believes about your choice. Do not take offense at that which you believe doesn’t exist.

          • Dennis

            Because the popular notion of morality and civilized life that exists within the framework of our Constitution PARALLELS the Judeo-Christian beliefs doesn’t necessarily mean we are all forced into Christianity. The Bible is the so-called for those that choose for it to be. You are not forced into anything at all. Live your life as you will. We all face the consequences of our decisions eventually…

          • Robert Whitlow

            SOME of our laws, but also some are based on common law of the Anglo Saxon, British Rights of Man, and other ideas and laws throughout history. PLEASE learn some history people before attempting to debate a subject one clearly has little factual knowledge of.

          • sylviacroft

            My goodness, aren’t we arrogant? You must be reading that history that’s been rewritten.

          • Robert Whitlow

            I am not sure about you, but I have never been arrogant. That word is defined as a feeling of superiority over others. I have never believed my self superior to anyone. I have studied history for a great many years, with the works of our founding fathers of particular interest. It always pains me when people claim to be privy to some as yet unidentified knowledge that those who have invested years of study have never been able to produce, but attempt to label those of us that actually can, and have supported our contentions as the ones attempting to, as you say, rewrite history. Any reasonable research into the basis of United States legal codes would show where our founders pulled the original laws governing the country from, and yes a part of the ideas came from the first ten commandments. (I am assuming you know there are 613 of them in the Torah) This is not a rewritten history, but rather facts put down in our founders own hand writing in personal, and public, documents.

          • HollandArc

            Please list the many who were not believers.

          • Don’t Even Try It!

            Wrong! Do some research and learn the truth.

          • razzy1492

            Anon: You are wrong some some were not christians but believed in God. A small minority were atheists and some were christians. They all believed in freedom of religion as stated in the constitution.
            The pilgrims came here fleeing religious persecution and dedicated this new land to God. America became the new promised land for Jews expelled from Spain around 1492. That is why this is a Judeo Christian continent,

          • Tom Feuhrer

            Perpetual lie becomes actual fact – to some.

          • Harvey Easton

            Wrong. Dont believe the Revisionist history. The founders were in awe of the power of God. They saw a handful of shopkeepers, farmers (only about 2 % of the population) pick up arms and beat back the most powerful military of the time. They very much believed in God.

          • Robert Whitlow

            And you know this to be fact because….? Oh that’s right, you are pulling percentages and facts from he recess of your own mind. Please, if you are going to quote numbers add a reference for the rest of us.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            “We have not government armed with power capable of
            contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our
            Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly
            inadequate to the government of any other.” — U.S. President John Adams

          • Robert Whitlow

            Treaty with Tripoli signed by John Adams. “As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion” mine is a matter of law with the legal document held by the Library of Congress. Where is your quote from? http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez
          • Robert Whitlow

            Roberto: Providing cited sources from a bible discussion group, or a .com that cites another biased.com is worthless to anyone wishing to learn the validity of a quote. So yes I am indeed saying you lack any credible source that those words were ever spoken by John Adams. Please, if you wish to be taken serious as a commentator, provide an actual legitimate source for your citations. I provided a tangible link to verify my claim. Christian discussion boards do not meet the criteria. Find it in a .edu or .gov and I will consider it to be valid. Otherwise it is just an unverified sentence that could have been written by anyone. Truly my intellect was insulted by the citations provided by you to support your claim. Oh, and your citation “http://sanctification.wordpress.com/tag/john-adams/” clearly states that this quote is CLAIMED TO BE FROM JOHN ADAMS BY WALLBUILDERS INC. There is no claim to its authenticity.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Of course Christian links aren’t legitimate to you. Obviously you only accept secular or left wing sources. So I apologize for daring to provide any other type source to a progressive with such a superior intellect.

            However, do you believe anything a government source or liberal university states.

            So how about the John Adams Historical Society at http://www.john-adams-heritage.com/quotes/?

            I could say Ohio Christian University at http://www.ohiochristian.edu/faith-liberty/solutions-plan, but you’d likely say since it was a writer at a Christian University it doesn’t count.

            Then there’s a source at http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Adams. The whole quote is;

            “While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. That which you have taken, and so solemnly repeated on that venerable ground, is an ample pledge of your sincerity and devotion to your country and its government.” – Letter to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, 11 October 1798, in Revolutionary services and civil Life of General William Hull (New York, 1848), pp 265-6. and also another source: October 11, 1798, in his address as President to the Military. Charles Francis Adams, ed., The Works of John Adams—Second President of the United States, (Boston: Little, Brown, & Co., 1854), Vol. IX p. 229.

            There are some differences in the version that appeared in The Works of John Adams (Boston, 1854), vol. 9, pp. 228-9, most notably the words “or gallantry” instead of “and licentiousness.”

            How about a book from the library of the University of California, Santa Cruz? It is “The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States,” Volume 9 by John Adams (grandson) and Charles Francis Adams; Boston: Little, Brown & Company, 1854 – United States, Entered according to Act of Congress, in the Court of the District of Massachusetts. – at http://books.google.com/books?id=PZYKAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA228#v=onepage&q&f=false

            Should I mention an article by Walter Williams of George Mason University at http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/12/ImmoralBeyondRedemption.htm? The problem is he’s a Christian.

            There’s another article from Oklahoma Wesleyan University at http://www.okwu.edu/2013/03/12/keating-center-dedication/, but once again the university and the speaker, Dr. Brett Andrews, School of Business Dean and Vice President for Program Development at OKWU, are both Christian.

            Here’re some other quotes attributed to Pres. John Adams;

            The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity.
            The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

            The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.

            Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

            I have examined all religions, and the result is that the Bible is the best book in the world.

            The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity.
            [The Fourth of July] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.

            As the safety and prosperity of nations ultimately and essentially depend on the protection and the blessing of Almighty God, and the national acknowledgment of this truth is not only an indispensable duty which the people owe to Him.

            However, seeing as how I found them on a Christian site, http://www.usachristianministries.com/us-history-quotes-about-god-and-the-bible/#sthash.MKDi7mcN.dpuf, you’ll likely claim I or someone else made them up out of whole cloth.
            I suppose http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/john_adams.html would also be unacceptable to you.
            By the way, I stumbled onto an interesting site that purports to deal with fake history including fake quotes. I found it quite interesting. I can be found at http://fakehistory.wordpress.com/quotation-index/

          • Robert Whitlow

            Roberto: You did a little better that time. Of course I consider any opinion site to be illegitimate as any rational person would. Your comment concerning my supposed progressiveness would came as a huge shock to those who actually know me. Simply because a person, or institution is Christian based has nothing to do with this debate, except in your mind. John Adams was a very religiously devoted man as any historian can attest, but your presumption that one person contains all there needs to be known concerning the founding of this country is incorrect. When questioned you provided bogus references. If nothing else you will have learned how to strengthen your arguments. Now if you will actually read the books you have used instead of copy and paste from Amazon.com you may eventually gain a greater understanding of the forces that necessitated and drove these men into a state of rebellion. What you need to understand now is that NOTHING with wiki in it can ever count as legitimate since anyone, no matter how ignorant of the subject matter, can and does, edit the content. Now come on, from your beginning I assumed you had learned something, but then you close your argument with “brainyquote.com, and fakehistory.wordpress.com? You are not quite there but with effort you can improve.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Your arrogance and disengenuousness are showing. You reject any source that’s Christian based, evidently even Christian universities.

            As for your comment about any one person containing all there is to know about the founding of this country, you forget it was you who demanded proof of what just ONE man wrote. In any event, I made no presumptions in that regard. But you can lie and say I did.

            However, if you had wanted I could have quoted other Founders about their beliefs in the importance of faith and morality in order to maintain the Republic. But then you’d likely have rejected any such quotes out of hand.

            You say I provided bogus references. Which ones were that, or did you dismiss them out of hand and say they’re bogus? You chose to pick out wiki. Was that my only reference? Will you lie about that too?

            As for Amazon.com, I’ve no idea of what you’re referring to other than you need to lie about that. As for other sites, I didn’t put them in any particular order, but rather as I found them. I doubt you’ll understand that.

            As for fakehistory.wordpress.com, as I said I stumbled onto the site and since you were allegedly concerned about fake quotes I thought you might enjoy it. But I guess you’re too aliterate to understand.

          • Robert Whitlow

            Roberto: If you would actually read my response I state very clearly that a Christian University was an acceptable source. My comment separated opinion site that you initially provided as being illegitimate sources. I pointed out your wiki reference for the simple matter that you will find NONE willing to accept it for anything.The Amazon reference was to your plagiarism in lifting quotes from a website and posting it in your comments. One must always give credit, which you failed to do. It is easy to tell by the synapses and sentence structure. My point was you should try actually reading the works instead of simply lifting exerts or copying another persons words.I will always question unsupported quotations and then call a person out that provides illegitimate sources such as the opinion sites you initially furnished. I never lied and said you presumed anything, only that you utilized ONE person to support your claim. As for Adams he is actually one of several that were highly devout men from the group of founders, and I suggest you expand your support base to better defend your arguments. Oh, and you may want to do away with personal attacks as they only appeal to a certain base while harming your position among the majority. It shows a certain amount of desperation of defense. Attack a persons facts, references, and defensible positions instead.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Sorry Robert, but I don’t see where you stated “very clearly that a Christian University was an acceptable source.”

            As for plagiarism, I cited the sites and any reference to amazon.com would be a non-sequitur. In my view that’s a lie.

            That you considered the initial Christian sites I referenced as “illegitimate” only goes to show your bias.

            Also just what was wrong with quoting one person in response to anon? Did you think a dissertation would’ve been the only acceptable approach?

            As for “synapses and sentence structure,” what was that you objected to, my quoting Pres. Adams remarks and referencing them? Did you want me to paraphrase his remarks?

            You claim you never lied and never said that I presumed anything. Then I suppose you didn’t write, “John Adams was a very religiously devoted man as any historian can
            attest, but your PRESUMPTION (my emphasis) that one person contains all there needs to
            be known concerning the founding of this country is incorrect.” Also you avoid your lie about fakehistory.wordpress.com.

          • Robert Whitlow

            I see now that you appear to be gloriously blinded by the dogma of your belief. It does you no credit to launch personal attacks while ignoring the facts of a debate. At this point I will wish you well in life, and also hope you can look beyond your personal understanding and gather the facts that history will present to you. The sentence structure changed when you copied and pasted the words from your “research” was explaining that you needed to read the works and express the ideas presented in your words. I t was not a jab at you, but rather explaining how anyone could tell the sentences were copy and paste. For now I will stop my participation in a debate that has little hope of adding any useful knowledge.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Yes, I’ve been harsh for a reason. You wanted proof of the original quotation. I’ve given you that proof, much of which you’ve rejected because it was from Christian sources, including Christian universities. You claimed you made it clear you’d accept Christian university citations, that I had made certain presumptions, and that I had committed plagiarism. Yet all your accusations were false and that’s what I find objectionable.

            It’s true, I cut and pasted the expanded quote in context with proper attributions to prove it’s existence despite your denials to date. So it’s you who rejects knowledge.

            This discussion was never about the ideas of the quote or my beliefs, but whether or not the quote actually existed. In your hubris and dishonesty you want to change the parameters so as to avoid admitting your duplicity, something else I object to.

            You throw out the word dogma as if it’s wrong to defend the charge of posting a false quotation. You complain about the sentence structure in the cited quotation to avoid the truth of its existence. You refuse to answer direct questions or admit you’ve lied several times.

            So you play the offended party and want to run, needing to believe my accusations are an unfair personal attack on your superior intellect and claim my objections to your less than honorable conduct is my lack of understanding of history, a history that was never part of this discussion.

            So go ahead and run. However, if anytime you have the courage to discuss the issue in an honest manner, I’ll be here.

            You might be surprised at my position. But first, you need to admit that John Adams wrote the quote in question, whether or not you agree with it.

          • Jo

            “We have not government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly
            inadequate to the government of any other.” — U.S. President John Adams

            Letter to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, 11 October 1798, in Revolutionary Services and Civil Life of General William Hull
            http://books.google.com/books?id=E2kFAAAAQAAJ&dq=editions%3AVsZcW99fWPgC&pg=PA265#v=onepage&q&f=false

          • Dennis

            You do realize that you have no idea what you’re talking about, right? It just so happens that a lot of Christians came here from Europe to escape persecution and pursue freedom of religion and freedom from oppression. Ergo, we have many Christians here but not as many as numerous other countries that ALSO stand upon Christian values. So what is it about “Christian” values that you object to? You think Christians are the reason for the moral decay we now experience? Maybe you should relook the situation, Anon. Why do you hide away behind your empty pseudonym?

          • Lynn

            Their letters and documents contradict your statement. To see original
            documents and letters go to wallbuilders.com. In fact these very men
            you refer to called on the government’s military musicians to play hymns
            for there “Church Service” in government buildings.

          • Carolyn Ferrante

            George Washington and even liberal Thomas Jefferson practiced Christianity. I believe it was Jefferson who signed his letters “Yours In Christ.” The colonists were Christian, although I don’t believe that Christianity is the only Way to God. .

          • Robert Whitlow

            Carolyn: You are mistaken about Jefferson. Please provide a reference to your claim.

          • Carolyn Ferrante

            Robert, I remember, about a year ago, reading an article, probably online, about some of the Founding Fathers, and it mentioned that Jefferson is mistakenly known as an atheist, but that he wasn’t. Then they mentioned his ‘complimentary closing.’ ???

          • Robert Whitlow

            Jefferson was not an atheist, he was a Deist. The Christian churches threatened their followers with ex-communication if they voted for him. Your article was incorrect. I would truly like to see this article. It would then be possible to show why this false claim was made.

          • Jo

            Yes, Jefferson did sign that way…
            Here’s a photo of the letter.

          • Darrell

            this country was founded on Judeao-christian beliefs …period…handle it..

          • http://americaisboiling.com/ frog-out-of-kettle

            You might want to check some of the quotes from the founders who spoke of God and faith.

          • MadMikey

            @Anon: You DO realize that the main reason the Pilgrims came here was to get away from the dictatorial ‘Church of England’ and form their own Christian values! This kind of says that nearly all of the original pilgrims were Christian.

          • Dennis

            Untrue. Thomas Jefferson was agnostic but the others were all Deists, if not Christians. Episcopalians were the majority.

          • LittleRoot_48

            It was founded on Judeo Christian values, whether you like it or not.

          • Warmac9999

            Have you bothered to check the backgrounds of the founding fathers? You probably haven’t but have been influenced by propaganda.

          • Graywolf12

            Please read REAL history, not progressive rewrite. Start with “Jefferson lies” by David Barton

          • Gouchybear

            Ya haven’t read our founding documents, have you?? Do these words ring a bell in your hollow head??
            When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

            We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
            This is of course from the Declaration of Independence, and I could continue to cite verse after verse that would further prove the Founders were indeed men of faith and Christian beliefs, but to do so would only make you look more foolish than you already are.

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            HOOCH SEZS–You need to go back and do some serious research. You Are Wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • onwego4k

            how in hell bryan can you be so ignorant where the hell did you learn history. we are a judo Christian nation a republic founded on the bible our constitution written and every monument etc has a biblical verse or quote what the hell are you talking about . it is people like you so ignorant that helped get us into this mess.

          • karacek

            You obviously are not a history buff!

          • Ted Paine

            you repeating a myth does not make it so. Many of the Founders were Ministers.

          • Jimmy Ledkins

            They don’t understand that

          • Aochoa

            You are absolutely right. People who don’t know it are unfamiliar with our Constitution. They need to read up on Amendment 1 of our Constitution.

          • texanna

            That just isn’t true. Believers or not, the founding fathers established a rule of law based on Judeo-Christian beliefs.

          • Anon

            How many commandments are there and how many of them became laws? Just in case you think there are 10, there are 613.

            also, if got forgot to mention that it wasnt okay to kill, does this mean you would go out on a killing spree?

          • That Falin Woman

            This country was founded on the principles of freedom, and that included freedom of religion. The men who founded this country were DEISTS, not Christians.

            Look it up. If you know how to use Google. If not, get a friend to look it up.

            Furthermore, the Constitution (remember it?) specifically states there will be no religious tests of any kind for president, etc.

            Get over yourselves. Please.

            The President is NOT the one you should be worrying about. The insane TeaParty Congress are the ones who will bring this country to ruin, if left unchecked.

            (And yes. I’m a troll. A paid liberal troll. I make truckloads of money for sharing my liberal opinion and pissing off conservatives.) Snark.

          • Douglas W. Rodrigues

            The idea that Barack Obama may probably be a closet Muslim has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with his loyalties. His actions demonstrate that he feels no loyalty to Americans, but instead hates this country and wants to change it.

          • mikebank

            He has shown loyality every day, before and after he was elected, unlike the GOP who have tried to destroy the leagally elected President, sinve the day he took office, and they have tried to destroy the Country, and turn over the remains to their masters, the Koch brothers and their friends.

          • Douglas W. Rodrigues

            The only loyalty Barack Obama has demonstirated is to his radical Socialist agenda, and that is un-American. Also, why does Obama have all of his past records sealed? What is he hiding? Do you have anything to say about George Soros? You sound like a political hack..

          • bob gilbert

            Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Great wit and sarcasm! Oh, wait, you’re being serious? How sad. Another product of the public indoctrination…er, I mean “education” system. And lap-dog main-stream media. Pure delusion and wishful thinking.

          • Dennis

            What a string of words that are incoherent and irrelevant. Is there a point to be found there, Mr. Deluded Wishful Thinker?

          • Dennis

            Its yet to be proven that his election was entirely legal. He has broken more promises than he has kept, in particular the promise that his administration would be TRANSPARENT. It has been completely secretive, arrogant and ambiguous.

          • Dennis

            I could care less about BHO’s beliefs but how he acts (or lack thereof) in leading this country. Change can be good but not too much and too fast. Its bewildering and creates chaos, division and confusion amongst the people.

          • That Falin Woman

            There is no point arguing with someone like you. Your mind is as closed as a locked gate, and you simply want to believe what you say. You have NO evidence of anything you say, but you are SURE it’s true.

            Your mind is incapable of grasping complex, multi-layered thought. Simplicity is all you understand. So … in words you will (maybe) understand: It is because Barack Obama is black. That is the bottom line. You can pretend it’s something else to make you feel better, but it’s because he’s black. And you can’t stand that. So don’t reply. I will only say more that you won’t like.

          • ckandersen

            Sounds to me like projection…

          • Dennis

            Not so much projection as it is rejection.

          • Douglas W. Rodrigues

            The PROVEN EVIDENCE is already out there: Fake Birth Certificate; Fake Draft Card; Fake Social Security number. trained in a Muslim school in Indonesia; saying that he will “stand with the Muslims” in his book; favoring Islamic countries over Israel bowing deeply to the ruler of Saudi Arabia instead of simply shaking his hand. Also, pulling that race card on me means that you’re an idiot.

          • Bryan

            But yet, we don’t have the “freedom” to choose, if we, as an individual, of a “free” nation, to have healthcare or not?!?! Where is the “freedom” in that?? It looks and sounds more like dictatorship, doesn’t it?
            What’s the difference between government telling you, you have to have healthcare and the government telling you how many kids you can have? NONE!!! The BOTH, are taking away your “freedom”!

          • Gordon Eick

            What’s the difference? Really? C’mon.

          • Benjamin Reynolds
          • USAPatriotSC

            So why would a Political Party need to troll comment sections? Why would a person like you need to input negative comments everyday Americans expressing their belief in their Political system?
            You speak of the Constitution and yet you support and take money from an Administration destroying said Constitution. I can only assume by what you write that you are Anti-American. Those who do not defend and support the Constitution and all it was created for are Anti-American. You can justify it any way you want but they are hollow words coming from a hater of Freedom and Liberty.
            Deists believe in Natural Law, Gods Law and they believe there is only one God.
            They did not believe in Religion or all the hoopla associated with Religion, just pure belief and Faith in one God.
            You insult others by telling them to look up information on the internet but we see the way you Worship Obama and hate the Tea Party that you should take your own advice.
            The Tea Party follows the Constitution but you call them insane, so common sense tells us you are Anti-American and don’t want a Country based on Natural Law or Common Sense, you want a Country based on Liberal Ideology where the Government is God.
            Check your History, a Country like yours always ends with misery, bloodshed and completely destroyed.

          • Diver_Down

            Don’t need Google, if your going to quote the Constitution, you need to read it. You know, the ‘Declaration of Independence’ and the ‘Constitution of the United States’? It’s a short read, it would be easy for your short attention span. Also, in the Presidential Oath, the one every president from George Washington forward had taken, states in the last sentence, “So help me God.” In 1776 they weren’t talking about a sun god, nor a moon god, or even a tree god. As much as you may hate it, they were talking about our Judo-Christian God. Also, in the first paragraph of our Declaration of Independence in speaking of the separation, it states “Nature’s God”, again, in 1776 they were NOT speaking of a sun,moon or tree god. In the second paragraph/first sentence it is stated “endowed by their Creator” , again, our Judo-Christian God. Spin it as you wish, the truth is in the writings of our forefathers. This was not ‘added’ in during the Civil War or the 1950′s. When the SHTF, we WILL protect the Constitution of the United States, with our lives if we have to, preferably with yours. There’s more of us than you think. Never underestimate your opponent, you will be unpleasantly surprised. Molon Labe, good day.

          • Robert Whitlow

            Please understand that the Declaration of Independence IS not a legal document. The United States of America did not exist at the time it was written. There are no LEGAL documents from the early stages of our republic that reference God, and NO documents including the Declaration that invoke Jesus.

          • Diver_Down

            I never said it was a legal document and nowhere did I say anything about Jesus. Your reply insinuates I did, and, don’t “Please understand” me with anything. If your only rebuttal is putting words in other peoples mouths, troll elsewhere. I fully understand what the Declaration of Independence is. Say those three words, now, what would they mean….? Anyone with common sense (there is a huge lack of that now days) should think that someone is under someone’s control, and, is declaring their independence from them. Duh… The declaration is a statement to King George of England from a group of rebels in the American colony’s. America is not America yet. After the 2nd paragraph, if you have ever read it, they all begin with “He has…”, our forefather’s referring to King George. So why would you insinuate that I think the Declaration of Independence was written after we were America, do you think all of us out here are as ignorant as you? By the way, reading all your post, your a good Satan. Always quoting scripture, putting others down and trying to impress everyone with how intelligent you are. You must have gone to Brown or Columbia. Most of us are just common folks, but the likes of you will be the first in our sites. Never under estimate your opponent. There are more of us than you think, lock and load, Molon Labe

          • Robert Whitlow

            Diver_down: I must confess that your mastery of the English language has rendered me impotent in the ability to further any resistance to your overwhelming diatribe. Please accept my sincerest apology for pointing out your inclusion of a document with no standing, legal or otherwise, in the attempt to prove whatever point you were wanted to make. For I must confess it appeared you were attempting to use the word creator contained within the text to prove a view that clearly from your response could not be further from the truth. As for your feeble attempt at painting me a uber-liberal from two of the most left leaning bastions of upper education, I must confess that no I did not attend either of those universities. Nor am I a liberal, but what would that matter to someone such as yourself? I am a simple man that believes history should be unfettered by dogma from any source, and the perversion of facts for religious, or any other source needs to be challenged by those of us who do have a reliable working, and hard earned knowledge of it.

          • Diver_Down

            He he he :) Another put down by the venomous Robert “the Satan” Whitlow. I also used an icon, please tell me how that’s so below your intellect. I can see, with reading all your post, that you didn’t say ONE, not ONE nice thing to anybody. Your a snob and pompous a$$, and, most likely can count all your friends on one finger, the middle one. I’ve met a$$holes like you….. rude, narcissist, egotistical jerks. I am disappointed your not a lib, your giving the rest of us a bad name. I feel for the person in your photo having to endure your belittling day in and day out, I’m sure sometimes she would like to slap the taste outta yo mouth. (yeah, I did spell it that way) Reading between the lines of garbage you spew, one could conclude that you had contretemps in your young life and were bullied and now have found a way in vetting your revenge behind a protective wall. In the attempt to spin it back to me in me making a ‘feeble’ point, you, Robert Satan, made the point that the Declaration of Independence was not a legal document. You started it, it was YOUR point, nah nah nah nah boo boo. So, tell me how childish I am and how I’m not worth your intellectual wrath and in the interim, go f*@k yourself. You sound like a guy a couple houses down from me, thinks he’s all that because he can cut and paste snopes and Wikipedia. Catch him without his computer or phone and he’s an idiot. Oh, by the way, I’m not all that religious if you couldn’t tell. I do know that almost all of my forefathers were. I’m sure you’ll ask how I know so I’ll answer, because over tea one night long ago, Button Gwinnett, William (I called him Bill) Ellery, George Wythe, Caesar Rodney and John Adams told me so. :) another icon! …
            F.Y. Robert Satan Whitlow,
            Good Day…
            Molon Labe

          • KellyCraig

            I am always confused by statements like this. Did not the original Tea Party “members” merely support law? I am not talking about demonacracy or other sophisticated forms of socialism. Rather, the republic form of government we are guaranteed and of which too many know little.

            What is it “Tea Party” does that makes so many parrot negatives about them, or are such comments merely directed at those who injected themselves into the party to destroy it?

            Please, enlighten me (I mean that sincerely).

          • Dennis

            Not that I entirely agree with you but I do adore sarcasm in a debate! BTW, I am conservative but find you entertaining more than offensive.

          • Audrey

            Your country was founded on a clear separation of Church and State with enshrined freedom to practice Any religion. Not on Christianity.Can you people even read?

          • JC08

            Our Constitution protects the church from state run religion, not the state from the citizens practice of their faith.

          • USAPatriotSC

            Your Country?

          • Diver_Down

            Really, your country? Obviously she’s an expert on ‘our’ country. I’m sure she has taken into account there were no Hindus, Buddhist, Shinto, islam, scientology or any other religion or cults present when they drew up our Constitution and Declaration of Independence. Our forefathers, being Judo-Christians, would have nothing to do with influencing that outcome, ya think? Our forefathers were smart enough to set in place the ‘separation of church & state’ so that our government could not force the people to worship a state religion as England forced the colonialist to do under the ‘Church of England’. Oh….. would that be why the Pilgrims fled England to come to the New World???? America offers freedom of all religions. But…. no matter how the progressive left want’s to spin it, in the beginning, our forefathers started the United States of America based on Judo-Christian principles. Spin it like a top, like it or not, that’s who they were. Molon Labe

          • USAPatriotSC

            All those Religions were present except Scientology. Most of our Founding Fathers believed in one God but not Religion. The Constitution is based on Natural Law “Gods Law”.
            I am a Scientologist and no Scientologist has or will ever vote for a Liberal. In fact, Liberalism are against everything Christianity and Catholicism Religions stand for.

          • Dennis

            I can read, can you? Find your words in print in the Constitution please and let us know when you do…

          • MaryJane Rissberger

            This country was NOT founded on god or religion, but actually the opposite….read a real history book.

          • Bryan

            We’ll professor, what was it built on?? Lies and corruption??

          • MaryJane Rissberger

            This country was founded on the principles of freedom, and that included freedom of religion. The men who founded this country were DEISTS, not Christians.

            Look it up. If you know how to use Google. If not, get a friend to look it up.

            Furthermore, the Constitution (remember it?) specifically states there will be no religious tests of any kind for president, etc.

            Get over yourselves. Please.

            The President is NOT the one you should be worrying about. The insane TeaParty Congress are the ones who will bring this country to ruin, if left unchecked.

            READ a book other than the morons handbook – you know – the bible.

          • JKellogg

            I’ve seen this narrative repeated a number of times here on BizPacReview lately. The truth is that a number of the founding fathers were Christians.

            Perhaps not all of them, to be sure, and maybe not even a majority of them. However most of the colonial population was.

            Here is what I consider a fairly balanced presentation of the subject.

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/billflax/2012/09/25/was-america-founded-as-a-christian-nation/

            Toward the end of the article is an interesting observation:

            Why then is the Constitution devoid of biblical references? Perhaps, because as James Madison remonstrated regarding inserting “Jesus Christ” into earlier legislation, “The better proof of reverence for that holy name would be not to profane it by making it a topic of legislative discussion.”

          • Kiki

            Yes, you should be concerned about this fake president who has eroded our freedoms on a daily basis and is thinking up ways to make you live like your in a 3rd world country. He doesn’t abide by our laws our constitution or any of our ways of life. He is a Sunni Muslim with but one goal and that is to destroy the infidel and my dear your are just that.

          • mikebank

            no, Obama is a Christian, and he is a better one than you.

          • Melissa Luce

            Obama is NOT a christian, and neither is his so-called pastor, Jeremiah Wright. These men are plants, period. Want proof? There are 5 short chapters in the book of First John- read them! Then if you still are convinced that these men and their so-called church are real christians, there is nothing more to say- the joke’s on YOU.

          • Gordon Eick

            Nothing but wild speculation. Let’s stick to facts if we want a productive conversation.

          • francie26

            you can’t know this. But we can know he is a Muslim. He wouldn’t have Valerie Jarrett practically living with him in OUR White House, and he would not have filled the Presidency with so many muslims if he weren’t. They are practically crawling out of the woodwork there.

          • Gordon Eick

            What does having Valerie Jarrett as Senior Advisor have to do with being Muslim?

          • USAPatriotSC

            He is as much a Christian as you are.

          • Egon

            M Jane, were you born this stupid or was it your liberal (communist) public school upbringing that did it to you ?Just google CPUSA and compare the Democrat agenda to that of the Commie Party, they are IDENTICAL.

          • USAPatriotSC

            Nice Liberal script you copy and paste. So the Commies now have it down to a script because you trolls don’t have enough brain power to write you own troll posts?

          • mikebank

            yes he does, that is why he is a liberal, you know, the ones who created this Country, and the ones who are defending the Constitution, not like the Conservatives, who have been trying to destroy it since the beginning of this Country’

          • USAPatriotSC

            You have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about. That is a truly insane comment.

          • colleenf

            Simple and easy answer: NO.

          • Dan Atatakai

            Bryan – given Mr. Obama is a Christian, why wouldn’t he?

            No, the US was not founded on Christian principles, by the way. Some of them may be common to the teachings of Christianity, but also of many other theologies.

          • Conrad Gabbard

            Obama is the only “former” Muslim in history who can walk safely among Muslims – and he’s running their “Great Satan” with his “phone and pen.” Figure it out and read
            “An Oath Violated?” @ http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/2009/11/

          • debs2005

            He believes in Allah so no!

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            NOPE–O is a muslim.

          • Carol Chadbourne

            NO HE DOES NOT! His god is Satan..and call me crazy, delusional and a nutcase…I’ve heard them all. HE IS A jihad Moslem, period..and he has his bro-hood in EVERY country in the world. They are waiting here in our backyards, waiting for the words from the dick-tator to kill us all.

          • Aochoa

            Of course he does, he believes in the US Constitution. Don’t take my word, just do the research.

          • standbehindtheyellowline

            Do you? Do you really know that this a$$hat is telling the truth about what was said. I get you believe that the POTUS has lied, but really, you would believe anything you hear from this scoundrel? I’d have to hear it from the POTUS’s lips first. Perry hasn’t really proven to be trusted by the people of his own state. Why would anyone else trust him?

          • disqus_PXzgTV7lWI

            Most sane folks know he’s smarter than that…

          • Dan Atatakai

            jim – submit regarding what? What is it you think the government is demanding you do which you do not like? Paying taxes, maybe?

          • ckandersen

            Actually, the Congress had to find ways to circumvent the Constitution in order to make us pay income tax! While it now an accepted means to fund the Federal government, the original intent was to maintain a VERY small Federal government funded from tariffs, and for the individual States and the people to hold most of the power of the Republic. So, yes, demanding that I pay taxes is something I do not like, but that I tolerate until we reform the system.

          • Dan Atatakai

            ckandersen – and all of this has to do with Mr. Obama addressing Rick Perry & company how?

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            Hooch Sezs–She drank two glasses of flouride water. OOP”S

          • http://www.timmichael.blogspot.com Tim A. Michael

            Jim – the ultimate authority in the country (outside of God) is the constitution. The 3 branches of government are co-equal. Even a basic law student would know that yet our president who (allegedly) taught constitutional law doesn’t embrace the concept. He is a tyrant plain and simple. I do NOT submit to that bastard (illegitimate son).

          • JC08

            Christians are duty bound to obey God before an evil empire Lynne. Those scriptures are sorely mis-represented by the DHS. True Christians know exactly what they mean, and will not be punished by God for standing against an unrighteous government. Read Vs 3 & 4.

          • JC08

            Romans 13 is so often mis-represented to try to make Christians think they must obey an out of order government. That’s not what it says, and God will not judge Christians on disobeying an immoral government. The government it talks about there is enforcing morality for the good of the people, not tyranny over the people.

          • Gordon Eick

            Bush suspended Habeas Corpus. Where were you guys when this happened? Obama is just continuing the erosion of privacy put in place by his predecessor. I’m just curious as to why so many conservatives were silent when Bush struck down Habeas Corpus?

          • ckandersen

            The vast majority of active Conservatives were not silent. Those that do not pay attention because of demands of daily life, or those who are “progressive” Republicans did remain silent. Why to you think so many Conservatives are pushing back against establishment Republicans? We are livid that they actively supported (along with the Democrats) several laws that eroded our rights and privileges. Unfortunately, the current administration is taking it even further! Is that really okay with you, just because the Bush administration was guilty of overreach. Really getting tired of the “Bush did it to” argument.

          • JC08

            We weren’t silent, but the MSM doesn’t cover the important news, just what they’re told to cover. It didn’t do any good to speak out then either. I was addressing the DHS training Pastor’s to keep their church folk from revolting using Romans 13. That’s a total mis-use of God’s word there. Bush put Homeland security in place due to 911, and the patriot act that has been eroding our freedoms. Yes, I screamed about it then, but now we can see what the years has shown us about who they really are. And all he did was pave the road for BHObummer to finish us off.

          • sylviacroft

            Lynne, 2/3 of the New Testament was written from a jail cell. The Apostle Paul couldn’t seem to stay out of trouble while standing for the “Truth” of the Gospel.

          • Twitch

            I’ll see your Romans 13 and raise you a Luke 20:20-25. Jesus’ answer seems benign and even supportive, and would have been heard by the Romans as such. But actually to the disciples and to those who had asked the question, it would have been heard as subtly subversive as the coin having the image of Caesar refers to the Roman practice of Emperor worship and thus the coin was an example of pagan idolatry. And what’s the first two Commandments? No other gods and no graven images.
            This is why the Pharisees later accused Jesus, at his trial, of denouncing the imperial tax.
            Paul’s advice in Romans 13 is one of the many times in his letters where he is giving pragmatic advice for believers, in this case: obey the law as much as your faith allows. Considering how much time Paul spent in jail or under house arrest, his advice was probably from experience.

          • Ngallendou

            In the USA, it is the Constitution that rules, not the president. Submit to God and to the Constitution.

          • Jarkko

            Chuck Baldwin wrote a book demonstrating how that romans 13 is misunderstood and misused. He makes a case on hiw bible teaches opposition to a bad government and speaks for individual freedom.

          • HARLEYHOOCH

            God said to obey a righteous government that serves the people. Nowhere does God say to obey a corrupt government. NOW YOU KNOW THE TRUTH>

          • debalazo

            Christians, or misguided ‘Churchians’? The ONLY submission by Man is to G-d, not to ANY ruler, especially, an illegal alien, usurper, non-Natural Born implant.

            Your rhetoric is ‘Paulian’, the Edumean infiltrator, spy, subversive of primitive Christianity; grandson of Salome, sister of Herod the Great. Or, according to Luke and Iosephus, Saul of Tarsus, his real name which he never confessed. The ‘Fool of Hope’, according to REAL Apostle Luke. And many other horrors, listed here:

            The Gospel of Paul. Free, online

          • http://www.timmichael.blogspot.com Tim A. Michael

            Lynn – the “governing authority” to which we “submit” is the constitution not some political hack that abuses authority or ignores the document that gave it to him.

          • Douglas W. Rodrigues

            Most of us don’t want to wait for Judgement Day. We want justice while we’re still alive.

          • friday51

            We are not waiting – OPERATION AMERICAN SPRING. MAY 16, 2014

          • Gordon Eick

            Yes because who wants to rely on boring things like voting and democracy?

          • ckandersen

            Are you are saying that public demonstrations are not part of our Constitutionally protected rights, and have not historically been used by different groups to make their point heard? Then what was the point of Martin Luther King, Jr’s speech on the Mall?

          • MaryJane Rissberger

            you can bet he won’t be burning in hades with the murderous Bush administration.

          • FrontOne

            If Bush was so murderous, Obama is too. He has done nothing but increase wars and even killing of Ambassador and troops in Benghazi.

          • mikebank

            4000 dead American soldiers? compared to four dead in Benghazi? The same place the GOP cut security funding to?

          • John Heathcoat

            Boot licker! Beware of this liberal troll!

          • Dennis

            Every one of those 4000 men and women were volunteers that knew what dangers they faced and were well-trained and equipped to meet them. The difference is the 4 men and our good ambassador were SET UP for a slaughter, willing or not.

          • Kiki

            Why don’t you go crawl back into your hole with the other snakes?

          • mikebank

            she can’t, you are in the way…

          • francie26

            You can bet that a democrat is never far from a “hate Bush” comment. Obama has been in office now for 5 years, going on six, and we still have to hear more about President Bush than about Obama. Is that because he is trying to use a better man to hide behind? Sure looks like it.

          • Gordon Eick

            No, it’s simply facts. But I know that conservatives hate those.

          • hittingyourfeels

            No it’s because he sucked and in spite of conservative hysterics, he participated in far worse crimes than Obama has even dreamed of.

          • Robert Schuster

            Wake up wake up. God put us here to care for this earth and we have what we asked for’ just as the Germans, Italians, Russians, and Romans, oh ya the Muslims.Wake up and waiting til Judgement day is not why God put is here.

          • francie26

            I’m kind of hoping he gets it before that. I’d like to witness it.

          • sylviacroft

            That is the bottom line. That is what the Lord calls the patience of the saints. Even though it looks like he is getting away with everything, God is just waiting until the cup is full.

          • lowercaselettersonly

            Really, I think he thinks his creator is Muhammad or Allah, neither will give him the justice he deserves, they will give him his reward for doing their work. I would like to have a seance and talk to some of those martyrs, to see what they really got.

          • Dan Atatakai

            What has he done which demands “justice?” Anything specific, or just wishful thinking because you do not like him because he is either in the wrong political party for your liking, or because of the amount of reflectivity of his skin?

          • ckandersen

            Obama’s ethnicity has nothing to do with why many people oppose him! Yes, there are probably some who do react that way, but a very small percentage of the people on this thread. You, however, fully display your racist attitude! I detest that fact that a majority of Americans elected a man with NO aptitude or training for the position as President. I detest the way he has used divisiveness at every turn. I detest many (not all) his policies. And I especially detest the way his sycophantic followers (that’s you) rush to defend him by claiming that anyone who objects to his policies must be a racist.

          • Dan Atatakai

            What racist attitude am I showing? Where on earth did you get that idea?

            Please name me any president who had experience at being president before his first term. Nobody has had presidential experience prior to being a president of the US.

            What divisiveness has Mr. Obama used? Are you talking about executive orders, by any chance? If so, you do realize that previous presidents have used many times more executive orders than Mr. Obama has, right?

            I have not said you were a racist. I am also not defending Mr. Obama. I am merely making objective statements about him and questioning others’ attitude, including asking for specifics, yet I see no actual evidence to back up any of these ludicrous claims. Do YOU have any specifics to back your claim of his “terrible policies”???

          • LittleRoot_48

            He is a Democrat and I don’t like his idealogy. I voted for Herman Cain because he is a Republican and I agree with his idealogy. Both of them have the same “amount of reflectivity of skin.” Is that clear enough for you or would you prefer to assume I am racist?

          • Dan Atatakai

            The detail I am interested in is about the ideologies you mentioned. What about each of them that you like or do not like? Just saying one is Democrat and the other Republican means nothing as it really says little to nothing of what you really mean.

          • LittleRoot_48

            l. Big government – don’t like
            2. Higher taxes – don’t like
            3. Welfare – need to cut it and get people
            to work instead – where are the jobs he
            promised?
            4. Socialism – hate it
            5. More government intrusion into our
            lives – hate it
            5. I believe in following the Constitution -
            he blows it off
            6. Over-use of the executive order
            7. Redistribution of wealth – hate it
            8. He sucks up to unions – hate it
            9. He’s liberal – I’m a conservative
            10. He lies – I’m sick of it
            11. He has put too many radicals in his
            administration – hate it

          • Dan Atatakai

            LittleRoot –

            1. WHAT big government? Please be specific.

            2. Higher taxes? You mean how you are one of those who are hating Reagan because people paid higher taxes then? You also are aware that taxes were higher than Mr. Bush Jr? http://news.yahoo.com/eisenhower-obama-wealthiest-americans-pay-taxes-193734550–abc-news.html

            3. Jobs? You mean how Mr. Obama has created MORE jobs than Mr. Bush 2.0? http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/04/17/job-creation-obama-bush-factcheck/

            4. What about socialism is it you hate? Be specific, please.

            5. What government intrusion into your lives?

            5, the second one. What about the constitution does Mr. Obama ignore? Anything like how Mr. Bush Jr. putting into order the unwarranted monitoring of US citizens?

            6. Overuse of executive orders? You mean how he has signed fewer executive orders than many previous presidents? http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

            7. What redistribution of wealth? You mean wanting to increase taxes on the richer people, like how it used to be?

            8. What do you mean he “sucks up to unions”? Any examples?

            9. What about him being “liberal” is it you dislike? Again, specifics, please.

            10. What has he lied about? Specifics, please.

            11. What radicals did he put into his administration? Again, and again, specifics, please.

            Your examples are extremely vague and inaccurate.

          • LittleRoot_48

            1. Our federal government keeps expanding its departments and through them, its power over the states.
            2. I mean more and more taxes on everything we do. Extra taxes on things like cell phones so he can provide “free stuff” to his voting base. If they can afford Nike sneakers, they can afford to pay for their own cell phone.
            3. Bravo Sierra!
            4. I hate everything about Socialism. I cannot be ANY more specific. There is nothing I like about Socialism.
            5. I mean telling us what we can and cannot eat, what kind of light bulbs we have to use, what kind of cars we have to drive.
            6. It isn’t the number of EO’s but what he uses them for.
            7.I mean taking from those who produce and giving it to those who prefer to sit on their backsides until their monthly welfare “check” arrives or their EBT card is replenished.
            8. I mean things like granting special waivers to unions for things like obamacare. Why do THEY get waivers and the rest of America doesn’t? We all know the answer to that: money and votes.
            9. I’m a conservative and I don’t like anything about liberalism.
            10. Keeping your doctor and keeping your health care plan, for starters. He’s had so many lies over the last 5 years that I’m not going to list each and every one.
            11. Cass Sunstein, Samantha Powers, Van Jones, Eric Holder, and plenty more. I don’t have to list them. You KNOW who they are.
            That’s all I’m going to say to you. If you think my examples are extremely vague and inaccurate, that’s your business. This is ALL of the time I’m going to waste on you. I would suggest you stop wasting you time replying to me.

          • sommerday

            The facts:
            Government spending percent increases per year

            Reagan 82-85 8.7%
            Reagan 86-89 4.9%
            Bush 1 90-93 5.4%
            Clinton 94-97 3.2%
            Clinton 98-01 3.9%
            Bush 2 02-05 7.3%
            Bush 2 06-09 8.1 %
            Obama 09-12 1.4%

            Note Obama has the lowest increases. Extreme right-wing Tea Party Repubs try to skew their data by calling the FED Budget year for 2009 an Obama Budget year, when the Fed FY budget began Oct 1, 2008, with a projected deficit of $1.2 trillion before Obama even elected and raised to $1.7 trillion before Obama sworn in as the economy went in to a death spiral in the 4th QTR of 2008. Bush deficits were tripling every year starting in 2007 and remember he first ate his way through a projected 5.6 trillion surplus he was handed in 2001 from the Clinton administration.

          • JKellogg

            There are many ways to interpret facts, Sommerday. While Obama’s record may be being distorted by his critics (In full disclosure, I personally do not care for him nor many of his policies.) I think there are more balanced ways to look at the fiscal record.

            Here is an analysis that is a bit more comprehensive:

            http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielmitchell/2012/05/24/mirror-mirror-on-the-wall-which-president-is-the-biggest-spender-of-all/

            It begins with your numbers and considers many other factors. In the end, Obama is no less the big spender than his predecessors, with the exception of perhaps LBJ.

          • sommerday

            I disagree with some things, but good points.
            What the author goes near yet doesn’t touch is the Republican’s need (in modern times) to feed the overly bloated Military Industrial Complex (ie. no-bid blank-checks to Halliburton). Some one recently wrote a book on the Defense Dept. They researched that a fire-hose of unfunded spending has been turned on the Military Industrial Complex and it still is not turned back to normal. But Mitt proposed yet another $2Trillion for the overly bloated Military Industrial Complex. A few are getting insanely rich off this largess “While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks,” Buffett wrote in a Sunday New York Times Op-ed.

            He also did touch how a projected 5.6 trillion surplus Bush 43 was handed in 2001 from the Clinton administration.

          • sommerday

            Government spending percent increases per year
            Reagan 82-85 8.7%
            Reagan 86-89 4.9%
            Bush 1 90-93 5.4%
            Clinton 94-97 3.2%
            Clinton 98-01 3.9%
            Bush 2 02-05 7.3%
            Bush 2 06-09 8.1%
            Obama 09-12 1.4%
            Note Obama has the lowest increases. Extreme right-wing Tea Party Republicans try to skew their data by calling the FED Budget year for 2009 an Obama Budget year, when the Fed FY budget began Oct 1, 2008, with a projected deficit of $1.2 trillion before Obama even elected and raised to $1.7 trillion before Obama sworn in as the economy went in to a death spiral in the 4th QTR of 2008. Bush deficits were tripling every year starting in 2007 and remember he first ate his way through a projected 5.6 trillion surplus he was handed in 2001 from the Clinton administration.

          • bob machaffy

            who wants to wait that long to see him answer to god on judgement day

          • cc0623

            No he won’t because God banished him once and does not wish to see him again.

          • Conrad Gabbard

            If memory serves: “the Lord helps those who help themselves.” Has that been changed?

          • Douglas W. Rodrigues

            We are here and now. Waiting for Judgement Day is like allowing evil to continue without constraint.

          • Brad

            Might as well ask Harry Potter to come save us. Let’s keep it to the real ok.

          • LittleRoot_48

            Harry Potter is the one who isn’t real. My God is.

          • hadenough

            NO he’ll go to hell non-stop

          • John Beach Hubbard

            Too long to wait.

          • Jimmy Ledkins

            I can’t wait for Bush to get his justice from the creator

          • LittleRoot_48

            Actually, we are ALL going to get our justice from our Creator. I’m glad my name is written in His Book of Life.

          • texanna

            I hope that is sooner rather than later.

          • Patsy Charles Pirillo

            still believe in fairy tales I see

          • frank fitzsimmons

            And what exactly is that?

          • Chad3434

            Don[t know about that. We could see it this fall. I have been waiting a long time to see this guy get what is coming to him.

          • Hamruniz

            Perhaps not in yours if you’re only planning to live no longer than a few months!

          • whawell

            Yes, it’s hard to depose a dictator!

          • John Claffy

            Could see it this fall.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            How so fool? He’s not even up for re-election. And if you think the Democrats are going to suffer somehow, wait for the results you idiot.

          • John Claffy

            And so a typical liberal hater called me a fool. His comment was deleted & that is a shame as it was most likely the height of his intellectual ability to call me a name. He even has to post without a photo. Perhaps that is to preclude people from seeing him drool.

          • Jimmy Ledkins

            They won’t see anything for a long time

          • wjgreen

            It’s happened right recently. But maybe never again. As Stalin said, “It’s who COUNTS the votes.”

          • David Worley

            You must understand.. Many Congressmen and Senators are in on the Big plan drawn up in 1961 to force America into the NWO.. Explain why they ALL sit by doing nothing allowing the many ILLEGAL acts Obama does almost Daily. He is Not working alone.. Americans have been dumbed down…. Proof >>> They Vote Democrypt.

          • George Breithaupt

            I can never get a straight answer on this. What illegal acts? can you enumerate (list) them???

          • Mariana225

            Read something else besides Yahoo, and listen to either talk radio or FOX news if you REALLY want to know about Obama’s illegal actions. You will not hear about them from the networks (which have willingly agreed not to report on anything that matters concerning this administration or any Democrat).

          • Joyce Meredith

            Hhahhahahahahah……FAUX NEWS….hahahahahaha……deep breath…….FAUX NEWS……no wonder you GOP are so screwed up!!! FAUX NEWS……priceless!!! hahahahahahaha!!!!!

          • SusieQ

            No news served at the diner MSNBC, CNN etc. that’s a fact! Hmmm I think they are about to fold why is that?

          • Billie F Smith

            Keep laughing, laugh yourself stupid all the way to the Fema Camp! If you want to live as a communist why not go live in Cuba, China or N Korea? It will never be the law of this land!!

          • That Falin Woman

            Dipstick. I am a liberal/progressive/communist. President Obama is about as far from being a Communist as any of you brainiacs on this comment page. God! I cannot believe the utter ignorance – stupidity, even – of the average redneck Republican!!!!

          • Douglas W. Rodrigues

            I’m only a half-white person, but with Obama’s Communist background of family, and friends, you must be living in a cave not to know anything about that?

          • LittleRoot_48

            Just what do you consider a “redneck” to be? I’d like to know before I post the reply I had first intended.

          • Kiki

            Nice to know who the enemy of Americans are Billie Smith.

          • Benjamin Reynolds

            God, huh?

          • Benjamin Reynolds

            We all find him eventually. It’s pretty wild to think that he has always been there. God loves the utterly ignorant, stupid, average redneck. And also the liberal/progressive/communists. And there’s nothing we can do about it. It’s not a feeling, but a choice. It’s God’s greatest gift. Enjoy. I Love you too.

          • Gordon Eick

            IF the FEMA camp paranoia turns out to be true, then it matters not whether you vote Left or Right. Bush made FEMA what it is today – so why are you partisan? Why do you hate Obama, but give Bush a pass? What does it matter – Republican or Democrat?

          • ckandersen

            Bush has been out of office for over 5 years. Give it a rest. Are you really okay with the current administration lying to you just because you believe Bush “was just as bad”?

          • hittingyourfeels

            No, we’re just thinking that lying about a website being operational isn’t the same as a false flag war, even though you cry murder about everything. I don’t expect the right to understand the idea behind keeping a relative perspective.

          • candy martin

            You laugh Joyce, but at least FOX news isn’t firing people left and right because the hosts of their programs are total embarrassments! And if FOX news spreads lies, ect. then why is it they’re the #1 news show on cable?? Laugh about that dumbass!

          • John Burris

            Beck, Coulter, Hannity, et al aren’t embarrassments? That’s the problem. Fox News has No shame whatsover.

          • Hkinsey3

            If there is shame in telling the truth then you might be a democrat. If you believe everything obama says then you might be a democrat. If you can’t find a single lie that obama has told you are a no information voter.

          • John Burris

            You shouldn’t believe everything ANYONE tells you, esp. a politician.

          • rastus

            You must mean obama!

          • LittleRoot_48

            Do you believe what obama tells you?

          • John Burris

            I don’t believe everything ANYBODY tells me.

          • ckandersen

            Do you believe MOST of what this administration tells you? How about comparing your belief now with 6 years ago? If you believe this administration, you are truly a low-information individual.

          • John Burris

            I don’t believe most of what ANY administration tells me.

          • That Falin Woman

            You are so full of … stuff … it amazes me you’re able to find a web site —- much less post a comment.

          • LittleRoot_48

            Well, I have found a lot of them. This one happens to be one of my favorites and I post a lot of comments. If that amazes you, I’d say you live a very dull life.

          • emiliani

            When did Coulter start working for Fox, John? That’s like saying Al Sharpton works for Fox because he gets interviewed. Wake up.

          • John Burris

            Can’t take ANY network seriously that EVEN considers interviewing Coulter. Just because someone writes books does NOT make them credible!!!

          • emiliani

            Yeah, or that even considers interviewing Obama or Al Sharpton. We got you. You don’t care about the facts — you’ve got your opinion. We get it.

          • John Burris

            Coulter and most Fox pundits consider facts irrelevant. and/or they hold the other party to a MUCH higher standard than THEIR party.  For credibility,  you have to judge ALL parties by the same standards.

          • LittleRoot_48

            No, they aren’t. The ones with no shame are MSNBC, ABC, CBS, CNN and NBC.

          • Jerry James

            No embarrassment at FOXNEWSCHANNEL, ‘Cause they tell the truth. If you are looking for TRUTH, You’d better stop watching and listening to the libturds, cnn, msnbc, cbs, nbc, abc, npr and the like.

          • John Burris

            Don’t watch any of them. I get my news from newspapers and the internet.

          • Greg Galliher

            Do you tour and where might I see your comedy act? This was brilliantly hilarious.

          • ckandersen

            Yeah…like the New York Times, Washington Post, Chicago Gazette, USA Today? That kind of “unbiased” news?

          • John Burris

            NO, I don’t live in those cities, so why would I read their newspapers?

          • Jan

            You obviously do NOT watch Fox News and are probably parroting what the left wing media and blogs are telling you. If you did watch, you would know that Ann Coulter & Glenn Beck are very seldom on there, and that there are many left wing contributors on all their shows. Bob Beckel, Alan Colmes, Juan Williams, Geraldo Rivera, Mark Lamont Hill. Leslie Marshall, James Carville, Kirsten Powers, Mary Ann Marsh, Dennis Kucinich, Arthel Neville, Greta Van Sustern and many others are on Fox to debate the issues all the time. Can you name an equal number of conservatives who appear on the liberal channels? Even Bill O’Reilly is not the conservative the left wing would like you to believe he is. He often defends Obama and agrees with liberals on some issues(environment, gun control, gay civil rights) and with conservatives on others.

          • John Burris

            I don’t read political blogs. Just because other media doesn’t swallow the Fox News koolaid doesn’t make them left wing.

          • CW

            Candy, you are 100% correct. They are not firing people left and right, but that’s because Fox News is perfectly content to keep their embarrassments on the air.

            They’re the number one news network because their talking heads are more extreme than the others. Please don’t tell me you think Beck and Hannity are actually reporting the news. That’s not their job. Their one objective is to get people to tune in – to get ratings. Hence the reason for all the shouting, crying, and the heated arguments with interviewees. Despite what you want to believe, they’re not passionate because they care about you or the country. They just really, really like money, and the country is full of suckers willing to line their pockets.

            For the record, I hate Obama. I am about as neutral as you can get, and until both sides realize they’re wrong we’re going to continue in this pathetic direction we’re headed.

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            Finally…..actual wisdom. gj cw

          • emiliani

            CW, stop getting your mom or sock puppet to click like and extol your brilliant wisdom. It’s very sad.

          • Limbchicken

            Please don’t tell me you think the MSM is. Really, any human still breathing is not that stupid (I don’t think anyway).

          • fideux

            Oh, I suppose they’re (at FOX News) making it up?
            Pull your head out!

          • Gordon Eick

            Yes, FOX News is spinning the facts to protect their corporate overseers. Don’t you think it’s at least possible that the 1% of Americans who control as much wealth as the bottom 90% have a vested interest in keeping that wealth and using their power to suck every last dollar from you, and make you work like a dog to feed their coffers? FOX News is the way they keep your eyes off the real enemy – Mammon – and on the straw man – the government.

          • fideux

            When was the last time a poor man provided you with a job? There just isn’t that much money in the United States. If you took all of the money in the United States and divided it equally between its citizens, we would all be below the current poverty level, and a Big Mac would cost $25!

          • Gordon Eick

            No one is saying we should ‘divide it equally.’ I’m not talking Communism. I’m just saying that the laws favor the enormously wealthy over the working middle class. I don’t work for a rich man, I work for a self-made man who pays his workers a decent wage for a hard day’s work – unlike McDonald’s, or Wal-Mart, or countless other corporate employers.

          • fideux

            No one is tying those folks to those entry level jobs, or suggesting they make a career in the fast food industry. Continue your education and you too can learn to screw the next guy out of his money! Wall Street and the gubment certainly didn’t pull folks off the street to make them rich fat cats; those folks made the sacrifices necessary to get to their positions of wealth and power. They certainly didn’t get there by flipping burgers, watching “Oprah” or “The View” while laying on the divan waiting for their next gubment check!

          • ckandersen

            You think that “self-made man” (remember, the President stated – You didn’t do that) is not part of the 1%…or possibly the 5%? If he is paying you more than Wal-Mart, it is because you have skills that make you more marketable than the average Wal-Mart employee. Supply and demand. Be happy you have those skills. Without them, you would likely be asking if someone wanted fries with their order.

          • ckandersen

            Look at the overall statistics. The U.S. has slightly under 5% of the world population, but produces 25% of GDP. Europe has a similar amount of GDP, with nearly twice the population. While the mid-East, with twice our population, produces around 6% of GDP. In other words, our “poor” are significantly better off than most of the world’s upper middle class. I always hear the left rail against the top 1%, but the anger is always directed against CEOs. What about doctors, lawyers, politicians, Oprah, actors, athletes? Are you claiming that Time/Warner has no “corporate overseers”? Fox is not no more guilty of trying to “maintain the status quo” than are all of the other networks, radio stations, newspapers, etc. The government is not a straw man…the government is Mammon, which is why the Constitution is designed to protect the people from the government!

          • emiliani

            I’m not sure why you can’t “line your pocket” and be conservative to boot. I don’t think anyone would accuse Charles Krauthammer of lining his pockets while talking about things he doesn’t believe. I doubt Hannity or Beck (who left Fox 3 years ago) do either. Frauds always expose themselves. But I guess it serves your purpose to say this. Whatever.

          • rastus

            I don’t think the Republicans have lead the country in the wrong direction. The democrats have called them the party of no for 6 years, and pelosi; reid and odumbo are the criminals here.

          • mogul264

            Neutral just means you can’t make up your mind, you believe blindly ALL you’re told, no matter the contradictions! Hence, the confusion, and inability to judge.

          • Jan

            CW, Please refer to my comments above to John Burris. And keep in mind that all that crap the left are telling everyone about Fox News is propaganda to prevent people from hearing any views except their own.

          • Skepticles

            “You laugh Joyce, but……” -candy martin
            Hi candy. I find myself wondering,”Gee, what did Joyce post?”. That is because, realizing she had posted a glaringly stupid comment, she deleted her post.
            But, if the first replier cut and pasted her post above their reply, like I did, then people like Joyce would be powerless to cover their tracks. That would have been fantastic. Then we would all know.

          • faye Paolino

            I always have to ask how they know what Fox News is saying if they aren’t watching Fox themselves.

          • JKellogg

            It’s called “ad argumentum FoxNewsum.”

          • rastus

            They have to , to get the real news.

          • mogul264

            Because there’s nothing but trash coming from the Lame Stream Media?

          • Marc Margolin

            Because all the conservatards are concentrated at the one big conservatard watering hole on cable – FAUX News. While at the same time, all of the free-thinkers with brains are spread out amongst all of the different choices available to them, or better yet, don’t need to follow a shepherd like all the conservatard sheeple do who can’t think for themselves.

          • Jan

            Instead of inhaling what the left wing tells you, you really should watch the channel for a while yourself before you pass judgement. Unlike the other channels, Fox has both sides debate every issue that is discussed. They have as many liberals as conservatives on their shows. They even have liberals who have their own shows on the channel. Much more than can be said for MSLSD, Commie Network News and the other lame brained channels. It is the people like you who believe every word the left tells you without question who are the brain dead zombies.

          • Marc Margolin

            I AM a left-winger, informing others of the hateful, disingenuous, prejudiced, right-wing morons on FAUX news. These people wouldn’t know the truth if it bit them in the ass.

          • ckandersen

            You are not “informing” anyone. You are passing on propaganda. Tell a lie often enough…

          • Brian Robinson

            Nice way of using conservitive terms, however backwards you may have done it.

          • That Falin Woman

            Fox “News” ADMITS THEY MAKE UP STUFF AND LIE. Look THAT up. They won a court decision allowing them to lie and make up stuff.
            http://www.librarygrape.com/2009/06/court-fox-news-has-first-amendment.html

          • mikebank

            because FOX news is free in your cable package….

          • Gordon Eick

            Same reason Mcdonald’s is the #1 purveyor of food to the average American. Doesn’t mean it’s real ‘food’ nor does it mean it nourishes you. In fact, it’s killing you, all for the corporate god, Mammon. Why are Right Wingers so quick to give worshippers of Mammon a pass?

          • ckandersen

            So now you are a nutritionist as well? I would not advocate eating at McDonalds every day, but you can make appropriate choices and actually do well with their menu.

          • David in Dallas

            Keep laughing. Maybe you’ll break a blood vessel.

          • Perry Butler

            Keep listening to MSNBC, talk about screw ups, really priceless…hahahahah!!!!

          • Hkinsey3

            I watch Fox News but to be fair I thought I would give the other networks a shot and see what they had to offer. I tuned in to msnbc and saw someone named Rachel Maddow and after listening to “her” spew venom for about 5 minutes I quickly tuned back into Fox News wondering WTH was that?

          • CW

            I will agree about Rachel Maddow, but as someone who doesn’t watch any of those biased networks, I can tell you with extreme confidence that you can get the same feeling if you turn on Fox News. You just don’t notice because you’ve been programmed. I truly don’t mean that as an insult. It’s human nature to want to believe in something, and if you watch one thing long enough you will start to drink the Kool-Aid. Hence the reason I’m still a Dallas Cowboys fan. I should’ve quit years ago, but every year I watch all of the local experts talk about how good they’re gonna be “this season.”

            Plus, just the phrasing of your comment says that you had your mind made up before even flipping over to the other networks. It was never fair. Again, this is the same mental programming that keeps me from liking the Eagles, Giants, or Redskins. Even though I enjoy watching some of their players, they are rivals of the Cowboys, therefore they are scum.

          • Steve Hackett

            Using the phrase, “drinking the kool-aide”, is only said by those who have already “drank the kool-aide”!

          • mogul264

            Say what you like about Fox, Hannity, Rush, but they are only saying what I’ve been thinking, they just say it a little clearer and better than I can. There’s NO “leading” me to THEIR thoughts, I think Rush is a little ‘pink’ compared to me, as I’m a step or two more conservative than Attila the Hun! A nuke a day keeps the terrorists away!

          • Jan

            So if you do not watch any biased news sources, just where do you get your news from? I ask this because it is my experience that ALL news sources nowadays are biased.

          • Witnessnotjudge

            You agree with Hkinsey3 about Maddow and then accuse him of not being fair , having his mind made up prior to viewing her.?? Umm, appears your not only drinking kool aide but smoking democrack dude.

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            Rachel Maddow is a disgrace to those of us who watch the network she is on, most people i know change the station when she comes on….if we wanted that we could’ve watched fox.

          • rastus

            Evidently you need to watch something more simple that you can comprehend

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            i have no desire to watch the anchorpeople who go preach a Christian right and then go screw around in the local cemetery with someone else’s spouse getting caught by the local police and heard on scanners in every new england news office.

          • rastus

            really! but you like a president that lies and is corrupt

          • emiliani

            Exactly. I do have to say, the new EWTN news show (I forget the name) is very good. It obviously has a Catholic-Christian perspective; they’re fair and thoughtful; and they hired and started their show with the host about a week or two from maternity leave!! That NEVER would have happened anywhere else. And it doesn’t hurt that the host is GORGEOUS and smart as a whip — Megan Kelly eat your heart out!! What a breath of fresh air!! They don’t do that crap that I’m so tired of from ALL other programs: 1 pro-1 anti person yelling at each other and accomplishing nothing. Rush was talking about this the other day … and I agree: I’m tired of the formulaic nonsense and arguing with no real regard to the truth or forward movement. The Catholic News comes from a perspective that truth exists … and a proper moral standing is requisite to present information on the show. I’ll be watching it a whole lot more; plus, I really, sincerely cannot handle Bill O’Reilly making so much of his show about him self … and Sean Hannity constant references to himself — the “Ask Sean Segment” is the absolute worst segment on FOX. (By the way, I think Bret’s show is outstanding.)

          • mogul264

            Been there, concur with that!

          • Denny Hall

            Poor delusional Joyce.

          • 20ozSoda

            JOYCE, I THINK YOU SAID THE WRONG THING. YA THINK?

          • Skepticles

            “Poor delusional Joyce”-Denny Hall

            Hi Denny, I find myself wondering,”Gee, what did Joyce post?”. That is because, realizing she had posted a glaringly stupid comment, she deleted her post.
            But, if the first replier cut and pasted her post above their reply, like I did, then people like Joyce would be powerless to cover their tracks. That would have been fantastic. Then we would all know.

          • RE Hafner

            FOX soars while the left wing struggles. The people are tired of Obama BS. Makes one wonder Joyce, do you work for a living or live off the taxpayers?

          • Steve Harmon

            Oh, I think we all know the answer to that JE, don’t we.

          • Jason Gordon

            Hey dude you’ve fallen into the trap and u don’t even know it! The trap I speak of is what u call a “job”. The word “job” is just a reinvention of the word “slave”. Before you try and bash me and say I don’t have a “job” (which in some ways you’d be correct)…..I “work”, I don’t have a “job”. I get up and go work on “my” terms. I basically do most all things with homes except for a few things like roofing and carpeting. Do you really think the purpose of life is to clock in at 8am and clock out at 5-6pm??? Basically you spend over 1/2 of your “waking” life at your “job”. Over half because of the time it takes you to drive back and forth to work. Your work day takes up probably 9 hours of your day. If you sleep 8 hours then that just leaves you with 6.5 hours to do your own thing….give or take a few small factors. Now of course we have it waaaay better than most countries but until a couple hundred years ago there was no such thing as a “job”, it’s a new invention.

          • Concerned Montanan

            Not everyone can be an entrepreneur, and those who are fortunate enough are those who give other people “jobs.” I wouldn’t say that is slavery; a “job” can be that you take pride in being successful at and can gain much satisfaction from that pride. I do like your attitude toward your own “work” and would bet you thus are good at it.

          • RE Hafner

            He likes to play with words, and probably himself.

          • Lynn Westrich

            What do you think a job is? A job is work that makes you proud. It does not matter what it is but it defines you as someone who has pride in themselves and a goal in which to achieve self worth. Not all people can set their own hours but I admire anyone who pursues a work ethic. Jason you do not make sense at all.

          • Jason Gordon

            I guess that’s my fault for not writing my whole thesis down here and instead trying to sum it up in one paragraph

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            I think the professional business definition of the word “job” is more along the lines of work that gets you by not that satifies spiritually or pays much.

          • RE Hafner

            Now Dude that you have finished your mindless rant, may I introduce you to the term “profession”. That is profession that provide income. Kind of like a job Dude. Another term is “occupation,” gainful occupations provide income, Got that dude? Call it a job, profession, occupation anything else you desire like self employed, they all add up to gainful income, got that Dude? In other word Dude, contribute to the tax base.

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            I think you are using the term “gainful occupation” loosely. Most u.s. jobs do not foot the household bill. You have to have two jobs per house to make it in u.s.

          • Derek Silveira

            I disagree, people need to live within their means. I provide the sole income in my household and we make it just fine. Quit keeping up with the “Jones’” and you’ll be just fine.

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            I live an incredibly humble life. These comments show the separation of classes. Both my h/b and I are very well educated. His income today was a great middle class income just 10 years ago. Top of Poverty level now. He is psychotherapist who goes to work 6 days a week 10-12 hours a day saving families and children. He works with very dangerous people who have been put out on the streets to prowl on you folks. He has prevented gang members from completing hits on law enforcement. His conservative politically active employer is a millionaire off of the work of my h/b and many others like him. The state pays the employer for the employees to fill out the forms but it doesn’t go to the people medicare has provided it for, my h/b completes it and gets no pay for it. But that’s what happens in social services. The conservatives scream about it, start a non profit stuffing their pockets, and make millions while we lose out on what is rightfully ours however to fight is to fight city hall.

          • Jan

            Since he is so accomplished at his work and does not get paid what he & you think that work is worth, why doesn’t he quit and hang up a shingle or find another employer who will pay him better?

          • Brian Robinson

            “to prowl on you folks” So they won’t prowl on you? Sounds like you vote Democrat. Lets see your husbands job pays what was a good income 10 years ago and this administration has been in 6yrs now. You mean to tell me that all those “jobs” Obama has created and not one pays enough for what your husband does. Sounds like you need to reconsider who you vote for. Also you might want to take Jan’s advice as well.

          • RE Hafner

            Anytime you make money and pay taxes you are being useful, when you lay home a breed and live of taxpayers you have no worth.

          • 20ozSoda

            OUCH! :-)

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            God finds worth in all….go to church with that mouth?

          • RE Hafner

            I am not God and my wallet is not open to irresponsible breeders. Get a life!

          • hittingyourfeels

            Same goes for corporate welfare, which steals far more from the middle class. Pull your head out of your chocolate starfish and join the real world.

          • RE Hafner

            When was the last time a welfare bum gave you a job?

          • Steve Hackett

            Unless your an adult working fast food, most Americans don’t need 2 jobs. That may change with the constant government spending and tax increases.

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            Not true.

          • Jan

            What he says is true. I know many people who live on one income, and not a big income at that. Mostly folks in the under $40,000 bracket. Some on $12,000 a year. And they are not going without any necessities and not in debt. They just know how to prioritize their spending and not waste any money on frivolous spending like designer jeans and jewelry and a new car every couple of years and eating out, etc.

          • Marc Margolin

            Riiiiiiight. A family living on $12,000 a year not forgoing any necessities and having no debt. This is what happens when your brain is immersed in FAUX news lady. You start talking like them. I warned you!

          • Jan

            These happen to be people I know personally. One couple lives in a trailer park in FL. Another lives in a very small one bedroom home in PA. Another lives in a house that was paid off years ago. Even my husband & I live in a house which we were wise enough to pay off years early when we did have some income, instead of spending the money on expensive luxuries. By your condescending attitude, I am guessing that you never were poor, or you would know how well some people manage with little money. My husband & I both grew up in poor families and our parents learned to stretch every dollar that came in. The problem with people today is that they don’t think they should have to make do with 2nd hand clothes and furniture and other items that are not new. It is amazing how much you can do with a dollar if you try.

          • Jason Gordon

            Oh and by the way….there’s a BIG difference between a career/profession and a “job”. A job is what u get at Walmart and taco bell…a profession is a mechanical engineer. Maybe you need to Google things before you speak out of your ass “dude”! Lolol

          • RE Hafner

            Dude, apparently you have neither. Too dumb.

          • Hkinsey3

            A job is not about how many hours that you work unless you are a worker that gets paid by the hour. Some jobs only require you to work 1 day a week or even less. It is still a job. You are confusing a 40 hour work week with a persons job or occupation. Occupations have been around since recorded history.

          • Jan

            in other words, you work a few hours a day when your welfare or disability doesn’t quite cover your bills.

          • Jason Gordon

            I’m a guy….unless I’m a single parent, which I’m not and my only child is 20 years old, how exactly would I get welfare? As far as my work goes….sometimes I work all day and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I work 7 days a week and sometimes just 2-3. You don’t seem very bright Jan, so apparently you don’t understand how remodeling work goes? When I’m not working I’m either playing Texas hold em or I’m working on a personal project in my garage. As far as my phone goes. ….If Obama is giving out free Samsung Note 3′s then let me know where I can get one so I can sell the one I bought with my own money and get the free 1 from him!!
            So Jan do you work or just make babies and sponge off your husband’s hard work?

          • ckandersen

            I would rather work 8 to 5, Monday through Friday, than work sunrise to sunset (or later) 7 days a week, as was the case when there were no jobs. I also highly respect farmers and ranchers who still work long hours every day, because of their love for their occupations.

          • Jason Gordon

            I’m sure some people used to work sunrise to sunset before there were jobs. There are a lot of people that still do as we all know. If those were my only 2 options then yes I agree with you….I’d rather work 8-5. There are more than 2 options in life and if someone “choses” to work all day then that’s there choice. I grew up on a 40 acre farm here in CA. If farmers are working sunrise to sunset then I’m thinking they need to switch crops. Now of course the amount of land they own and grow on plays into all that was well.

          • John Burris

            Yet the GOP continues to lose national elections.

          • RE Hafner

            The GOP recaptured the house few governorships in the process. THE GOP also retook three state seats in Colorado replacing three gun grabbing democrats who where recalled. It is apparent you are stuck in the liberal fog of ignorance.

          • John Burris

            Governorships and State legislatures are NOT national elections. They are state elections. Main reason they dominate US Congressional elections is gerrymandering, which should be outlawed.

          • RE Hafner

            The US House of Representatives is national!

          • John Burris

            Did you not see my comment on gerrymandering?

          • Steve Hackett

            Why not vote for the party that pays you to sit at home and then convinces you that successful people are to blame for your pathetic life.

          • John Burris

            Then don’t vote for EITHER party since they hand out corporate welfare like it’s candy to Wall St.

          • Brian Robinson

            He already does.

          • disqus_mo8ewPYVck

            Okay Ms Smarty Pants…. Try Mail.co.uk and get away from MSNBC.

          • rappini pasta

            Hey Joyce, did you know that the Pyramids were a mistake.

          • James Graham

            Oh yeah, I just found this out, myself! According to TV, they were supposed to be cube-shaped! Unbelievable!!!! :)
            Just imagine what the ancient egyptians could have done with 3D Printing for Masons!!!!

          • mac12sam12

            How old are you? You are very immature.

          • Steve Harmon

            Well Joyce, for someone that knows absolutely nothing about Fox News, from a personal standpoint, you sure have fun mocking it. That doesn’t speak well of you.

          • kjenkinsaf

            Troll, go elsewhere.

          • purplewings

            Sure Joyce. And that is the reason FOX is number 1 of all media. hahahahaha Stay stupid, my friend.

          • John Burris

            Hip hop and pro wrestling are loved by MILLIONS too. Doesn’t mean they are credible. Why people think ratings are even pertinent is AMAZING.

          • RE Hafner

            We leave those programs you mention to the low intelligence voters such as yourself.

          • John Burris

            Be advised that I scored in the 99% on social studies (ACT) years ago, and that’s before I served in US Army intelligence, studied Asian Studies in college, and travelled widely. I accept your apology.

          • RE Hafner

            I do not apologize to fools, run along now.

          • Brian Robinson

            Army intelligence is an oxymoron. Semper Fi! All that money spent and the end resaults we see here today are sad.

          • John Burris

            “results” is the correct spelling. Thanks for your service as a Marine.

          • Concerned Montanan

            I wonder how many people who make fun of Fox News ever listen to it; or are they just sheeple who parrot what they hear from their fellow idiots (er, I mean their liberal friends). Sorry, I don’t really believe they are all idiots; some are just well-meaning communists.

          • Jan

            That is true. It is amazing when Jessie does his man on the street interviews and one of them says they don’t like Fox News and when he asks how often they watch it they say “never.” Or when he asks why they don’t like it and they say because Fox lies all the time and he asks them to name one lie and they stand there like a deer in the headlights and can’t name one. They are all just taking the liberal media & liberal politicians word for it. And they called Rush followers dittoheads? They are the real dittoheads!

          • Michelle Houghtaling

            It’s the number 1 source of cable news, so quite a few Democrats must be “screwed up” too.

          • Gary Honeycutt

            All democrats are at least somewhat screwed up.
            Fox News is #1 even though conservatives lose elections.
            The explanation is that dead people don’t watch TV they just vote democrat.

          • Jan

            Good point Guy!

          • James Graham

            Mariana225 is 100% correcto!!! If you stay with the MSM (NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN), you will have not idea what’s going on in the current “regime”. Open your minds and entertain a bit of critical thinking…..

          • John Burris

            Fox News will report on “illegal” Democratic actions all day, while ignoring GOP ones. They’re not credible in the least. You can’t manufacture scandals all year and then expect people to believe you even if you do uncover something.

          • Hkinsey3

            Fox isn’t ignoring Republican mistakes or actions….it’s just that they are harder to find than the the plethora of democrat scandals.

          • John Burris

            hahahahahahahahaha

          • Jan

            Again, if you actually watched you would know that they criticize Republicans also. And you really believe that the IRS auditing of only conservative groups and the NSA spying on 300 million people and the false claim that Benghazi was because of a video and the death of a border patrol agent and hundreds of innocent Mexicans because of a flawed DOJ program and all the problems with Obamacare are just “manufactured”? Would you feel the same way if all these things were being done by a Republican administration? Or would you be screaming from the rooftops in an attempt to inform others about these Republican scandals?

          • John Burris

            These “incidents” pale in comparison to bogus invasion of Iraq where over 100, 000 people killed for NO reason and the complete abandonment of Katrina survivors like me Post Katrina. Get some perspective.

          • Brian Robinson

            Really, for one Bush had bipartisan backing of both the House and the Senate to invade Iraq. Where do you think Syria got most of its chemical weapons from? WMD were found in Iraq. I also happened to be stationed in New Orleans with 4th MAW before during and after Katrina. It was the worthless Governor they had at the time Blanko and the Mayor Nagin that was the reason Katrina was so bad.

          • John Burris

            Brian, Please show us where WMD were found in Iraq. You are apparently the only one who knows of this fact. Also, when I talk about abandonment of Katrina survivors, I’m referring to the shabby treatment of us for the MONTHS afterwards. Nagin and Bush were both grossly incompetent in general in ALL aspects.

          • Brian Robinson

            Manufacture scandals? Oh boy. It’s people like you that are half the problem.

          • John Burris

            Most Americans are clueless on business in general and how the world really operates. Minor incidents don’t constitute a scandal.

          • CW

            Ah, so we should not watch the networks that blatantly lean far-left, and instead opt to watch the famously-unbiased Fox News? Yeah, got it. Everyone get out your tin-foil hats!!!

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            Just wondering bout those “truthful” reports coming from fox news…is the information from the two anchorpeople who were caught messing around in the cemetery in newton?? the two married ones?

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            What has that got to do with reporting the news? Exactly nothing.

          • 20ozSoda

            Are we gossiping? :-o Stick to the subject.

          • Jan

            So I guess I’m safe in assuming that you were out there in front pushing for Clinton’s impeachment because the fact he was having adulterous liasons discredited him from being able to perform his job well? Yea, just as I thought. You defended him by saying that one thing had nothing to do with the other, right?

          • Michael Rocker

            You will only hear it on Faux Fake news because they are shills for the GOP and are trying to scare people with their lies. I get better news From Colbert and Stewart then I can with fox.

          • Brian Robinson

            Faux and Fake are the same thing so use one or the other not both it just makes you look dumb and stupid!

          • Michael Rocker

            If you say so Mr Robinson. If you say so. I think it’s time for your nap now.

          • proud2beDem

            Mariana you are totally delusional , if this president was doing anything close to what you are implying the GOP would be so far up his ass they all would get lost , but as you can see all you folks seem to do is complain , acuse and whine . Get your lazy asses up and do something if there’s anything to be done !!!!

          • That Falin Woman

            Fox “News” ADMITS THEY MAKE UP STUFF AND LIE. Look THAT up. They won a court decision allowing them to lie and make up stuff.
            http://www.librarygrape.com/2009/06/court-fox-news-has-first-amendment.html

          • Kiki

            You can listen to the Muslim shows they will tell you exactly what’s happening.

            http://tunein.com/radio/Islamic-Talk-g272/

          • Gordon Eick

            I urge you to look into the history of FOX news. They are not on your side. They are on the side or corporate power, who cares nothing of you, who care nothing of God, who want to use every last bit of our God-given land until it is useless, all to serve their short-term gain, of which you will see NO benefit. WE, the middle class, are going to disappear.

          • Michael Rocker

            Maybe the fact that you won’t hear the so called lies on the REAL Networks because there is no truth to your statement. I am stilll waiting for Bush and Cheney go go on trial for their lies. Like the WMD’s that weren’t and the real reason to invade Iraq.

          • Frank Castle

            SELECTIVELY enforcing, and then REFUSING to enforce LAWS and parts of the Constitution, is a DIRECT VIOLATION of his Oath of office, and IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE.
            His REFUSAL, to enforce immigration laws… Deportation laws .. hows that for starters ??

          • Frank Castle

            How many times, has something big happened, and Obama has claimed he HAD NO IDEA it happened.. or was going on…. “Dereliction of duty” is an impeachable offense…

          • Joyce Meredith

            Yeah…kinda like WMDs in Iraq huh?

          • Jeffrey Reppel
          • Eric G

            Hi Jeff,
            I’m sorry I missed Joyce’s original comment that was deleted, especially since the responses have been so intense. You will never make any headway with someone like Joyce, as it appears from the responses she railed against Fox but had nothing of substance to back up her claims.
            I mention this strictly as a helpful suggestion and not a direct critique-Wikipedia is not a good place for a primary source, since there is no control over what information is listed (it is user contributed), and most colleges and universities are forbidding students from utilizing the website for actual research. However, it is a good place to start.

          • pappawtom

            I can think of 4 good reasons, Benghazi, and the cover up that ensued from the White House and State Department.

          • pappawtom

            I forgot you don’t watch Fox News so you did not know that happened, right?

          • obadiahlynch

            Fox viewers regularly score as the least informed of all news viewers. Did you know that?

          • Eric G

            Where did you get this statistic?

          • obadiahlynch

            It’s been well known for years. “Fox viewers uninformed” returns gobs of hits; choose whichever you like. Here’s the top hit — http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-uninformed-npr-listeners-not-poll-suggests/ — but there’s plenty of others.

          • Eric G

            Funny how you left out all of the other links that come up, like from the Huffington Post, some universities, and left-leaning websites.

          • obadiahlynch

            Top hit was the one I grabbed. I didn’t even look at the others. If huffpo had been the top hit, that’d be the one I’d have grabbed. Point is, there’s gobs of them. This is not new information.

          • Eric G

            That was my point. The huffpo is not exactly unbiased in their reporting.

          • pappawtom

            Well that puts you in a special class of people who are so informed since most people who get their news from TV get it from Fox.

          • Dmdjaj

            Yeah, let’s go back to bush why not Clinton. A disgrace!!!

          • Steve Harmon

            Heck, why stop there, how about the Eugenicist in Chief, Woodrow Wilson. Yeah good old, “let’s kill some mental defectives”, Woodie, fun fellow. Heard he was banging that sweetheart Margret Sanger. Couple of cute murderers.

          • kjenkinsaf

            The start of Progressivism. Now they’ve infected all sides.

          • Steve Harmon

            Exactly, that’s why we all need to support Senateconservatives.com and Freedomworks.org. Dump the Progs on both sides of the aisle.

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            George Bush the son allowed for the deaths of several clinically retarded people on death row. IQs were lower than 81(I think is the number for non-functioning). Several were abused by their own families and the school system (which includes peer bullying).

          • Jan

            So what? I have much less concern for cold blooded killers who CLAIM to have low IQs than I do for the millions of innocent unborn humans who have been denied their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
            You obviously prefer to sick up for the killers!

          • hittingyourfeels

            And you’re only concerned with them until they’re born.

          • Steve Harmon

            ZERO comparison. You’re talking convicts, I’m thaling children, come on, surely you see the difference. You probably agree with baby murder (also known as abortion), don’t you?

          • Steve Harmon

            When you say several, how many, to you, are several?

          • mike walsh

            Clinton killed us with NAFTA..

          • Dmdjaj

            The only thing Clinton was and us interested in is pussy, not the country, not Hillary just plain ole Pussy , and thedems love him. Isn’t that peachy?

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            Isn’t there a special bar in every town that the cons go for midnight special? I remember one in New York not too long ago. The only difference is there aren’t dems sitting there with I-phones taking pics of them.

          • Billie F Smith

            Since the WMD’s were moved to Syria was NOT Bush’s fault. Those are the ones Al Qaeda used to kill all those people!

          • twmon9816

            They were there moron. Go back to playing with your dolls kid.

          • A J Jackson Gum

            No, nothing at all like the WMDs.

          • candy martin

            Joyce, explaining things to you is like explaining something to an idiot. Oh wait….. I am!

          • hittingyourfeels

            Yes you are an idiot. Finally one of you sees the light.

          • candy martin

            And yet, the last 2 years of GW’s presidency, democrats controlled the house, so why didn’t they try to impeach him?? Oh maybe as BO has said, there was no there there.

          • Brenda

            Joyce: Right or wrong GWB operated off of intellegence supplied to him from various sources and countries, discussed with his advisors, and had the colloltion of several other countries But, GWB is not the issue and it is well past time people stopped blaming him and start accepting blame for their own actions and failures. Obama is a boy playing at a mans game and he has no clue.

          • ron proskey

            Rumsfield,& Cheney are largely responsible for the WMD fiasco-do some research. When are you guys going to give up the whole “Blame it on Bush”? This isn’t a discussion about Bush’s issues-and there are issues, it’s about the current President.

          • Denny Hall

            Ever consider the possibility of them being removed to a neighboring country, Joyce?

          • mike walsh

            Denny – Saddam did not have WMD’s and disliked Al-Qadea. did not allow camps in his Country.. Us removing him made the region more unstable.. Sometimes leaving a brutal dictator in power can be the best move…He was friends with Bush senior…

          • mac12sam12

            How were the Kurds killed huh?

          • Brian Delarmente

            Were the hell do people keep getting the information about wmd’s in iraq being a lie he friggin used one that everyone knew about and admitted to making them. Also threatened to use on U.S. troops if we did anything. Also we were delayed every step of the way of inspection with mystery trucks with mystery cargo moving stuff before we were let in to look. so ya i think someone would be atleast a little bit suspiscious.

          • babbott

            As usual, when Obama’s crimes are discussed, the liberals always evade the discussion and go back to bashing Bush.

          • SirJamesSC

            Stop the BS. Iraq DID have WMDs. He even used them against his own people.

          • Ron

            Please get off crack before posting things…

          • Eric G

            Can you spell Kurds?

          • SirJamesSC

            No crack here, so go away. I just prefer to stay with facts, not Demo BS.

          • Ron

            Facts??? LOL,, you mean the same facts that they feed you at Fox News????, yeh, you sure do get your facts right… LOL

          • SirJamesSC

            You really do believe the MSNBC bravo sierra? Must be difficult living in that world. For the record, I watch several news sources, including Fox, BBC, and Al Jazeera, among others. Fox is the most consistent in showing BOTH sides (when there are 2 sides). Incidentally, it was CBS that reported several years ago when the Iraqi yellowcake was shipped to Canada. And most of them reported the gas attack on the Kurds – which really did happen, contrary to the liberal BS.

          • Ronald Hunt

            Joyce; It`s better to keep your mouth shut and let people THINK you`re a fool than to open it and prove otherwise.

          • Steve Harmon

            Oh, that’s right, I forgot, “it’s Bush’s fault”.

          • purplewings

            They found the WMD’s in Syria being used on their population. As I recall that was where our military figured they had been taken……

          • mike walsh

            Its funny how you can only point one thing out about the Bush Administration that Dem’s voted for as well.. It’s always the same argument with you people.. Are you really that clueless?? We have an unjust war so now everything this President is doing is some how ok.. Joyce I’m wiling to bet you really have no idea what Obama is doing.. You watch 30 sec sound bites and make your decisions based on them.. Joyce you better get your head out of your ass or you will be singing the blues here very soon with the rest of us…

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            They were there and now they are in Syria. Try reading more than the liberal lies. The stupid U.N. gave them plenty of time to hide the WMDs in Syria and that’s exactly what they did. Like any other none thinking liberal, you want to blame yet something else on Bush. Troll.

          • Nixon

            Ok. So it’s Bush’s fault.
            WMD’s have nothing to do with it. Get over it, Obamasissy has been pres for 5 years. anx Fox criticized Bush a lot too, and rightfully so.

          • Jan

            You do realize that every intelligence agency in the West also believed he had WMD’s and that Saddam himself said he had them? That’s more evidence than Clinton had when he bombed the aspirin factory!

          • omega2

            YES AND THEY WERE MOVED TO SYRIA WHERE THEY WERE FOUND! HAVE ANOTHER SWIG OF BOZO AID!

          • John Burris

            Then why wasn’t GW Bush impeached then?

          • Sunshine43

            “Then…….then?” Were you educated? Doubt it’

          • Joyce Meredith

            Not good enough. Try again.

          • Dmdjaj

            You must be a liberal democrat who just cannot handle the truth!

          • Steve Harmon

            Nope, I see full on Progressive.

          • Denny Hall

            Not good enough for who? You? Then we have nothing to worry about.

          • Jim Coda

            Why war the DNC all aboard and supported GWB and the other Countries to go after Iraq and Afghanistan until they wanted to use it against them and then it was “All Bush and the GOP” that did that! I will never forget during the 2012 elections… “Well, I DID support it until I didn’t support it anymore..”

          • Steve Harmon

            Our words to you exactly. Thanks for playing along. Troll hunting is fun.

          • john4637

            Defense of marriage act, civil rights laws, immigration laws, depriving shareholders their money and giving it to auto unions, contempt of federal court over gulf oil drilling. I could go on and on but I don’t have the time to waste as I did not vote for that prixk and I have to get to work!!

          • mobilebay

            …and have you heard, Frank, that the DOJ has sent orders to the Border Patrol not to defend themselves against rock-throwing Mexicans? Rocks can be as dangerous a weapon as any other. The agents are instructed to hide or run. What wimps our leaders have become.

          • babbott

            Frank, he’s been told several times and he just refuses to acknowledge Obama’s crimes. You are wasting your time trying to educate an Obama worshiper. Any answer you offer to his question will be denied and ridiculed.

          • 20ozSoda

            SO…. my question is….WHATS THE HOLD UP! WHAT HAS THIS MAN HAVE ON ALL THESE PPL THAT HE’S NOT GETTING IMPEACHED???? UGHHHHH!

          • Eric G

            The answer is simple. As long as Reid has control of the Senate, BHO will never be impeached. The House does not have the stomach for it, since they know it would never make it through the Senate. The left would use impeachment proceedings against the Republicans as a rallying cry for more racism, and the sad truth is there are enough voters out there who will believe it. The chance of the dems losing control of Congress would evaporate. I’m not saying it is right, it is just reality. Until there is a massive overhaul of our elected officials, very little will change. I urge everyone who takes the time to contribute on this site to vote and encourage others to do so. If there is anyone who is adding comments and does not vote, think long and hard as to how seriously you wish to be taken when you make your political arguments.

          • 20ozSoda

            AMEN! VOTE! Yea, I know Eric…Harry Reid…another snake in the grass.

          • Eric G

            Right on. The problem is people like George Briethaupt always squeal about “what crimes?”, but when you do point out the infractions, GB and his ilk will either name call, go back to bush bashing, or just ignore the facts. They do not make an effort to do their own investigating or educate themselves about the current events going on; they are just parrots of the MSM.

          • John Burris

            All Presidents and law enforcement agencies selectively enforce. Don’t be naive.

          • George Breithaupt

            Really! That’s the besrt you can do? That just sounds like every other president since Herbert Hoover.Who should have been impeached was Bush.The conservatives are calling for impeachment as part of their sour grapes for having lost the elections. However there are a few more things that Obama could to reverse some of Bush’s unconstitutional actions.
            1. Investigate and try where applicable Bush and his underlings for crimes against human rights and corruption.

            2 Repeal the Patriot Act

            3. Withdraw troops from Iraq and Afghanistan .

            If Obama does this he would be ridding us of the toxic left overs of the Bush Administration.You just don’t know how the presidency works. i really do not think Bush should have been impeached. Presidencies just work this way.

            .

          • Iron Tub

            You are as capable as anyone else to do research on your own. One example is Odramacare, you cant sign a bill into law then make amendments on it anytime you like. Thats exactly what he has done for political purposes . Therefore, it is not the law that he signed, making it illegal! The Constitution is the law of the land. Just by reading that alone, you can determine for yourself how many times its been violated by this president. Google is your friend, try using it.

          • Joyce Meredith

            Make amendments? Really? All he did was allow people to keep their crappy insurance for another 2 years. Everyone cried so much about it. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

          • eaglestalon

            Your problem is you are clueless as to what it means to have a LAW and what is the responsibility of the Judicial in seeing it is enforced as long as it remains on the books as a law.

            See, liberal, it is AGAINST THE LAW to REFUSE to enforce a law because you disagree with it.

            This applies to Obamacare also.

          • Billie F Smith

            Are you really that stupid? He is compensating or making amends because the liberals up for re election are crying that Obamacare will make them lose their elections(they will anyway unless cheating is done like the last election!) He has lied to the people, the insurance companies,to convince them he is right, when we all know that all that Obamacare is good for is destruction of our country! Taxes, Fines, Lost policies, people dying, treatment being denied to people for certain disease(death panels), that is what you want? You need to move to a communist country if you do.

          • candy martin

            Omg, are you seriously that stupid Joyce?? Keep their crappy insurance?? How could that be WHEN THEY ALL GOT CANCELLED YOU STUPID TWAT! He’s changed the rules on Obamadontcare more times than Mooch has changed her ghetto granny panties!

          • Steve Harmon

            I think we all agree, the answer to your 1st question is YES!!!!!

          • Denny Hall

            He’s just plain damned, Joyce.

          • Christopher Derrick Edens

            Obama Care is a train wreck. Its an excuse for the insurance companies to double and triple their premiums. I am all for affordable healthcare, but Obama Care is not affordable for the working class that doesnt qualify for the free or government subs, which by the way is a crappy policy. Historically, government doesnt attack the root of the problem which are the insurance, drug companies and hospitals. I can’t wait for the next few years to pass when all you liberals get what you want then go OMFG what have we done. As for me, screw obama, screw obamacare, tax penalty here I come till I just go off the grid and they never get another dime.

          • Christopher Derrick Edens

            As far as I am concerned, the Obamacare law violates your fundamental bill of rights. This law has trampled all over my freedom of choice!

          • Jim Coda

            No he didn’t Joyce.. he saw how lying about his failure of a Healthcare plan was damaging the DNC and moved the date back til after the Mid-terms. Then he was told that the next round of cancellation notices would happen DURING campaigning and moved it again! And crappy insurance?? I was very happy with insurance that didn’t cover me for maternity care (my wife and I are over 50) didn’t include substance abuse, birth control counseling and prevention and had a reasonable deductible for 1/2 the premium? The insurance Obamacare is telling me to buy now is so expensive it is barely worth even having it. I am paying insurance companies and your King money to be told when I need it that I have to pay for it myself.

          • mac12sam12

            If you like obamacare it’s because you’re one of the sponges who live off taxpayers.

          • Donna Cox

            Crappy insurance? My insurance plan I have had since 1992 is far, far superior to obamacare. obamacare is the crap collected from enemias provided by obamacare.. That is all it is. Political payoffs and failed website, (from mooch #2′s buddy).
            Ms. Meredith. I suggest a google search or a new news service, because you definitely need to be educated.
            For obama’s impeachable offenses, go to Hillsdale College and take the Constituion classes they provide on line. Read the writtings of the brilliant founders of the United States and maybe you will be smart enough to vote intelligently from now on.

          • Steve Harmon

            That wasn’t what the LAW, as written, allowed. Congress and Congress only has the authority to change Law Joyce. Maybe attend a civics class at a local junior college, educate yourself. He doesn’t have the, Constitutional, authority to “allow” people to keep their “crappy” insurance, that they were very happy with ’till Obama-bin-Lyin’ insinuated himself into their lives you low self-esteem, low information idiot.

          • Eric G

            The problem is even if Joyce were to attend a civics class, her professor would most likely tweak the curriculum to justify what BHO has been doing as patriotic, legal, or both.

          • Iron Tub

            Yes really! He has changed this so called law at least 30 times. The last change was to try to help save the senate in Nov. Do you honestly believe this is all about health care?? He can’t even enforce the laws that are in place. And yes, everyone will continue to put up a beef about it. That you can count on.

          • Hobbesruls

            He has made appointments without Congressional approval while Congress was in session. That is illegal.
            He has modified and delayed portions of the Affordable Care Act. That is illegal.
            I could continue to list examples of illegal legislation through Executive Order, but what would be the point? The people who refuse to see how badly this President has abused the Office will continue to refuse to see it, or at least they will refuse to acknowledge it.

            Victims of con men never want to admit when they have been suckered.

          • Joyce Meredith

            Yeah….you should know right? After all you get your info from FAUX NEWS.

          • eaglestalon

            Fox News? You mean that cable news station whose audience TRIPLES the combined audiences of MSNBC & CNN?

            Fox News whose audience according to the latest demographic polling is made up of almost 30% DEMOCRATS? That Fox News….liberal?
            Then there’s this:

            Pew Study Finds MSNBC the Most Opinionated Cable News Channel By Far
            http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2013/03/18/pew-study-finds-msnbc-the-most-opinionated-cable-news-channel-by-far/

            Finally this: LOL, must really SUK to be you…lib

            According to Pew, 53 percent of MSNBC’s viewers identify themselves
            as Democrats, compared to 47 percent at CNN and 21 percent at Fox News.
            Applying those percentages to the August Nielsen ratings, it means that
            the average number of Democrats watching Fox News is 214,200. MSNBC has
            199,810 Democrats, and CNN 179,070.*

            The other interesting thing in the Pew numbers is the way the
            audience of politically independent viewers breaks down. Predictably,
            higher percentages of Democrats watch CNN and MSNBc; higher percentages
            of Republicans watch Fox News. But all three networks have similar
            percentages of independents: 31 for CNN, 30 for MSNBC and 28 for Fox
            News.

            Oh, one more thing (journalism professors who consider cable news the
            scourge of the profession should sit down before reading): The cable
            news channels are more trusted than their broadcast network counterparts
            — and, for that matter, more than the New York Times. Pew’s survey
            found that 29 percent of the people responding say they “believe all or
            most” of what they see on CNN, with 27 percent saying the same for Fox
            News. MSNBC lagged a little bit behind at 22 percent, but still ahead of
            ABC and CBS (21 percent), NBC and the New York Times (20 percent).

            *Nielsen data for math nerds who want to do their own calculations on
            the number of Democrats watching cable news: In August, the average
            round-the-clock audience (Monday through Sunday) for Fox news was 1.02
            million; for CNN, 381,000; and for MSNBC, 377,000.

            Read
            more here:
            http://miamiherald.typepad.com/changing_channels/2010/09/cable-news-fair-and-balanced-audiences.html#storylink=cpy

          • 20ozSoda

            (hee-hee-hee) :D LOVE THAT FOX NEWS!

          • Eric G

            You lost Joyce at “Fox News?”.

          • BTeboe

            Obviously you don’t get any news at all and just wait for the Party to tell you what to think.

          • twmon9816

            Keep on confirming what a moron you are dumba$$. Do you get paid by the word or number of posts making a fool of yourself?

          • Eugene Sevene

            No name calling. I would have to guess that grand dad and dad were also Democrats and that she is following in their foot steps. I would also guess that she is doing so blindly and not looking at the whole picture. both sides of an issue. If as I suggested to her earlier she will look into the subjects I gave her with an open mind she might change her mind.

          • candy martin

            Joyce, you’re just a sad, pathetic troll. You have failed to raise a single fact or argument in favor of Der Furher Obama. You are useless waste of air.

          • Denny Hall

            Come on, fess up. You’re being paid to be so stupid, right?

          • Eugene Sevene

            Joyce I am neither Democrat nor Republican. I am not close minded and being so I listen to all sides of an issue, do my own research and make my own decisions. Just to enlighten you I Invite you to look these up.
            1 De-educate the population, this has been going on for decades.
            2 Divide the people..cause tension between the classes,poor,middle,rich.
            3 destroy the middle class, only the poor and rich remain [ civil war]
            4. control the amount of money the population has.
            5 Control every aspect of the peoples lives,food, health, personal property.
            6 disarm the people,make it impossible to to fight against government tyranny.
            Start here and if you don’t see the truth by the time you do this there is no hope for you.

          • Steve Harmon

            That’s right as well as The Blaze. I enjoy the truth. I don’t look the idiot, like you, worthless little nothing trolls, when I can speak the truth.

          • charles17121

            Hobbesruls , You nailed it . But then again liberalism is a sickness .

          • BTeboe

            Mark Twain said it is easier to fool a person than to try and convince them they’ve been fooled.

          • Steve Harmon

            Oh, that’s right, I forgot about the recess appointments. Supreme Court beyatch slapped him for that sneaky little bit of chicanery. Joyce and George really need to read more, unless they enjoy looking like the complete fools they are.

          • Mark Shells

            Would you acknowledge them if anyone pointed them out and substantiated them? I have my doubts that you would listen judging by the tone of your query.

          • Ann DeLong

            Basic “illegal acts” are his continuing to alter Obamacare without going through congress. It IS a law since it was passed by Pelosi’s House several years ago. ANY alterations to said bill HAVE to go through Congress…according to our Constitution, which the last I looked, us STILL the law of our land.
            That’s the first one I can come up with without further research.

          • allen goldberg

            George: Are you asleep? Just changing laws is an illegal act. You do understand the President does NOT make law? He has NO authority to do this at all.

          • Dmdjaj

            One was a recess appointment while congress was in session!

          • candy martin

            Oh, let me see….. 1) promoting gun control that goes against our 2nd amendment right, 2) illegal spying on citizens and the media, 3) using our tax dollars for bailouts for his corporate cronies for corporations that are already in bankruptcy, 4) his mooching wife and offspring taking more vacations than the average citizen does in a life time. Ok, that’s not illegal, but it’s still wrong!

          • candy martin

            Now George, don’t you feel enlightened??

          • 20ozSoda

            Good one.

          • SirWilhelm
          • Sharpshooter

            George, have you ever heard of a word called research. There is a vast array of information out there if you will only look!

          • Cheryl Lynn Smith-Bell

            How about Benghazi, [allowing his adviser to call for stand down] Fast and Furious, failure to close the borders to terrorists, bypassing congress with executive orders, lying about Obummercare, just as a start.

            And filling his cabinet with muslems [terrorist sympathizers].

          • 20ozSoda

            HEY, CHERYL LYNN, we have the SAME name…and think alike too! Kool!

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Well hey, I do too, but my Lynn has an e on the end of it. Cheryl Lynne. LOL

          • 20ozSoda

            LOL! TOO KOOL! Sorry to all you guys out there! Female Moment! We’re allowed! We’ll get back to business! ;-)

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            They’ll just have to get over it. Gotta start supper. BBL Can’t wait to hear what stupidness comes out of Joyce’s mouth next. LOL

          • 20ozSoda

            (Joyce got tired).

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            LOL Hope she stays away. What a moron. She believes all the crap coming out of DC.

          • 20ozSoda

            She kept it “lively”. PAH! ok I better be nice. and find a topic to discuss. lol

          • gitarfan

            He is not following his oath of office by ignoring laws he doesn’t like and changing laws he has no authority to change. Border security and Obamacare alone show illegal actions. Just because he has a phone and a pen doesn’t mean it’s legal for him to use them.

          • Lew

            #1 HE is NOT a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN of The United States of AMERICA! Therefore NOT OUR PRESIDENT!

          • disqus_mo8ewPYVck

            No. YOU look them up. No matter what I show you, you will say, “Oh, that is a right wing news source…” If you can’t see the wrongs, then just give up. Join the army of the UI.

          • susandanielspi

            The president needs two parents who are both citizens. Obama had one.

          • Greg

            where do i start,,,,the lies? the murders? the treason? pick a spot and i will give u some examples,,,theres tons of them

          • Eugene Sevene

            executive order that allows the president to arrest a U.S. citizen and hold that citizen without charges or trial for an indefinite period of time if he feels they are a threat to the government on his word alone. Look it up for yourself if you truly want to know. Most liberals will not even research for themselves they just listen to MSNBC and believe every word they say.
            For the record I am neither Democrat nor Republican, I am American and leave the party membership to the socialist and communist. Look this one up and you will find a whole list that violate the constitution. Even the unions are now seeing the truth of Obama.

          • Steve Harmon

            I’ll list some, the changing of the implementing of the ACA Law passed by Congress, many times

          • Concerned Montanan

            The list is too long to enumerate here on a single comment, but you can read, and hear, can’t you? Pay attention – see Mariana’s comment below.

          • Brandon Allen

            dude, you have google…. quit trying to make everyone work but you……ohhhh riiiight. democrat. duh.

          • Hkinsey3

            No need…just read the constitution and then check what Obama has been doing to us for 5 years. If you can’t find anything there’s no need for explanations you are beyond reasoning with.

          • Awake&Aware

            There’s this web page called “google.com” you should check out. As you can’t think for yourself, I’ll help you out:

            http://blackrepublican.blogspot.com/2013/08/black-american-citizens-file-articles.html

          • Posse Comitatus

            Well here’s a main one, he’s not even constitutionally eligible to be president.

          • Richard O. Mann

            Google illegal acts of Obama. That will give you a good place to start. Unless you are a die hard supported of the Prez. Then you will not believe anything negative said about Obama, no matter where it comes from.

          • SirJamesSC

            You’re kidding….. right?

          • emiliani

            I’ll offer you one: unilaterally changing implementation in the ACA without congressional approval. Unconstitutional. You may not care, you may not think it’s a big deal, but it’s lawless and unconstitutional. And it will contribute to the increased lawlessness in society.

          • rastus

            Fast & Furious; NSA; bENGHAZI; IRS; -IS THAT ENOUGH

          • mad man marc

            I would but it wouldn’t matter, cause once you drink that kool aid… your done, your mind can no longer tell the difference between right and wrong, good and bad, or legal or illegal! You can no longer comprehend what reality is or what is really going on around you. go get your Obamaphone and call somebody who gives a sh**, cause your opinion is worthless!

          • 20ozSoda

            OKAY…that’s it! You crossed the RED LINE!..NO, this RED LINE. NOW I mean it…THIS RED LINE! (MY BAD) . :D

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            Spoken like one who doesn’t believe in the principles this country was founded on…oh…that’s right, doesn’t matter, conservatives have something to say.

          • George Breithaupt

            Spoken like a true American who knows worthless up close and peresonal

          • Lowell

            Good morning,
            George. Nice nap ?

          • Shel
          • jimbodc1

            Surly you jest…

          • The Ronster

            Changing material and constructive portions of the ACA without Congressional approval. All laws MUST be amended via CONGRESS.

          • Douglas W. Rodrigues

            Have you been living in a cave somewhere? “What illegal acts?” You’re jesting, right? I.e. Illegally awarding money to Unions during GMC’s bankruptcy, Unions which donate to the DNC ; Circumventing Congress to go to war; pushing for the trillion dollar stimulus for Jobs and then giving most of the money to Big Banks where the money still sits (the banks donate to the DNC); Giving arms to the revolutionaries in Libya…arms which will end up in the hands of Al Qaeda; illegally forcing Americans onto the un-Affordable Health Care scam after intentionally in lying about how the program would save citizens money, the exact opposite is happenings, and he knew it would happen; Failing to uphold his Oath of Office to Preserve, Protect, and Defend the Constitution; Functioning as a subversive to slowly create a Socialist Society in this Country which is contrary to the Constitution; Purging the Military leadership of all who would not go against the Constitution and refuse to fire on American Citizens if ordered to do so by Barack Obama. This is the end result of that questionnaire sent out to the Military membership a couple of years ago…what was deemed “just a study to see if the Military would fire on citizens.” In effect, Barack Obama is functioning on the level of Treason, and you ask What illegal acts?!

          • Kiki

            Really???

          • fideux

            Educate yourself! You will never hear of Obama’s lawlessness from the main stream media, (TV, or newspapers); they are all in Obama’s camp!

          • ckandersen

            Do your own homework. However, as a starter, Executive Orders are a means to direct the various Federal Departments and Agencies on how to properly carry out laws. They are intended to be procedural in nature, not legislative. This administration has usurped the authority of the legislature (curse them for not properly defending the separation of powers) by using Executive Orders to modify the law. The simple act of delaying a mandated date in a law is an act of defiance by the Executive (and an illegal act).

          • Michael Rocker

            i would like to know as well. I doubt there are any. These people listen to Rush and the fux people and take it like the gospel.

          • John Burris

            The fact that Palin was a VP pick and Perry is a GOP governor (both lightly educated) and GOP candidates are clowns would seem to disprove your point. and I’m an independent.

          • BDBerzerker

            Agenda: Grinding America Down, Look it up and watch it. Then pass it on to everyone you know.

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            Please list the illegal acts……….what illegal acts are you talking about?

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Obviously, you have not read any of the previous posts, either listing the illegal acts or showing you where to find them. You people are hopeless.

          • Tom E. Snyder

            And with RINOs like McConnell and McCain, what difference does party make?

          • marcymrp

            Believe it or not (and yes, I do agree that we have been “dumbed down”, but), our “Vote” is no longer counted! I don’t know WHEN it began, but I (as many) believe that going to the voting booth is just a placation for the masses; if not, how do we explain the second term? WE didn’t do that….period! After speculation and wondering for years, the last election arrogantly slapped us in the face with the fact that “we” don’t have anything to do with who sits in office!

          • That Falin Woman

            Living proof of the dumbing down of ‘Murika. Those of you who voted for G.W. Bush (twice!) are the proof of the dumbing down. Our current president is black. That is ALL you find wrong with him. You will swear it’s not about race, but you know in your little shriveled “Christian” hearts it’s ALL about race.

          • Gordon Eick

            Vote Republican next elections and watch as every river, stream and forest is absolutely destroyed by corporate interests that could give 0 fucks about God. How will you like it when you have no where to go where the outdoors are unspoiled? No where to hunt, to camp, to fish a clear, clean river and eat the fish you’ve caught. This is what we look forward to with Republican leadership. Is this not something both the Left and the Right – at least the working people of the Left and Right – can agree on?

          • DefendConstitution

            Nice words but only aout 1% of Congress even knows we have a Constitution, much less reads it. Bho will never be locked, if Congress does grow a set, the next POTUS will pardon him. Very sad but I’m afraid it will go like that.

          • George Breithaupt

            I mean what illegal acts??? Humor me.

          • GRusling

            Changing a law from what Congress approved is an illegal act for the President of the United States. The list goes on and on…

          • Joyce Meredith

            And what law would that be? You do know that he does have the right to use Executive Order? If Congress keeps refusing to get things done then he has that right. By the way….when do you think Congress will vote on the Jobs bill and raising the minimum wage? And you know what is even more shameful? The idiot republicans like to go to war but don’t want to give the veterans the benefits they deserve. Or how about the fact the idiots voted 50 times on repealing the ACA…to no avail of course. Yeah….impeach Obama if you can. You can’t. He has done nothing to deserve it. But you just keep trying. All you will get for your efforts is a democratic Congress and Senate. So by means….keep it up with the cries of impeachment.

          • twmon9816

            Another rocket scientist sent here by media matters. Why do they send the dumbest they have? Oh yeah, the majority of progs are idiots.

          • AF Sarge

            As far as Republicans liking to go to war it looks like we are tied. Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Clinton, Reagen, Bush, and Bush.

          • mac12sam12

            The University of Manitoba did a study on internet trolls. They said trolls were sad individuals. Narcissistic, psychopathic and sadistic with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument. You are a sick individual. It also said they are generally lonely and sad. Seek help.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Clinton was impeached for far less. Idiot.

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            Clinton was not impeached. They had nothing to impeach him on.

          • lakeside227

            Yes he was. The house impeached him, but the senate wouldn’t convict. The charges were perjury and obstruction of justice.

            “RESOLVED that William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors, and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:

            ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT EXHIBITED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN THE NAME OF ITSELF AND OF THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AGAINST WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, IN MAINTENANCE AND SUPPORT OF ITS IMPEACHMENT AGAINST HIM FOR HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS.”

            http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/clinton.htm

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            The Senate did not agree with house and voted against it so he was not impeached. It didn’t come to pass-you don’t half convict a murderer. We can come up with reasons for impeachment for probably every president that has presided over this country.

          • lakeside227

            It’s clear you don’t know the definition of ‘impeach.’ It means to BRING CHARGES AGAINST.

            Yes, Clinton WAS impeached by the House. The House filed 2 charges against him – perjury and obstruction of justice.

            I quoted from the impeachment charges and provided the link.

            Clinton WAS impeached – CHARGED WITH HIGH CRIMES and MISDEMEANORS – by the House.

            The Senate didn’t CONVICT. Your continued protests against an event that DID happen only makes you look silly.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Clinton most certainly was impeached. He lied under oath, twice I think. That’s perjury and with a normal person it would mean some jail time.

          • Steve Harmon

            You mentioned earlier that you were very well educated, I say LIAR. If you deny the impeachment of President Clinton then I’m left to conclude you should be very happy President Wilson’s wishes were not followed up in law. Stop saying stupid things and the perception of your intelligence may escalate. For now, just stupid.

          • Rvdixie

            Why pray tell would we want to humor you. You are so misguided trying to educate your ideological mind is a waste of time. Most of us have better things to do. Nobody will ever change your mind so why waste our time. If you can’t determine how inadequate, inexperienced and ideological a President we have it’s obvious no amount of facts will convince you otherwise. The facts are all out there in plain sight you just have to be open to believing what you see.

          • Joyce Meredith

            Typical republican response. You can blame it but you can’t name it.

          • Billie F Smith

            Amen! You can’t fix stupid! You wind up having a war of facts, reasoning and common sense with an un-armed person!

          • Billie F Smith

            Really George? Read these posts, everything they have listed is ILLEGAL!! Obama is ILLEGAL! Go live in Cuba if you don’t want freedom, he is trying to block our right of free speech, our right to bear arms, our rights to assemble. Our Constitution has been the law of this land for over 200 years and now these communists morons think s our country should become a communist state! NO WAY!! WE WILL FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM!

          • candy martin

            Look George, BO’s illegal acts have been put in your face time and time again. Are you that retarded or just a dumbass??

          • George Breithaupt

            I should remind you people that being Uppity is not a crime, nor an impeachable offense. Being an uppity nig is about the only difference between him and every president since Dwight D. Eisenhower.

          • john4637

            I agree he deserves a prison mess hall but don’t hold your breath, you will suffocate!

          • sreynolds

            With voter fraud rampant in the USA,, how do you think we can win another election? EVER?

          • Lynne Mcnair Burroughs

            How quickly one forgets the Florida/Bush scandle.

          • sreynolds

            If there was a voter fruad issue with the Bush/Florida election, then someone should be prosecuted, Unlike a liberal, I don’t like ANY polititions breaking the law.

          • James Graham

            As long as voter fraud is allowed to run rampant, this will never happen. Maybe that’s the intent of the founders. Maybe they realized that when and if voters are no longer actually determining who their leaders will be, then the only tool remaining is one that’s been used before against the British…..it’s in the history books (at least the honest ones not sterilized by leftist intelligentsia)…..’nuff said.

          • Tom E. Snyder

            1. WE will never have control of even ONE house.
            2. If you attempt legal action against him and succeed–highly unlikely–President Biden will pardon him and he’ll never do time. (see Nixon, Richard and Ford, Gerald)

          • MaryJane Rissberger

            only after DubYa and Cheney are in jail, you idiot

          • Ben Dover

            That is not going to happen. There is so much corruption there now that they will not allow it to happen. If by some chance it does the demos have stacked the deck in their favor. The courts will side with the left as most of them are now in favor of the dems.

          • Jim

            We can only hope at this point because of ineffectual “leadership”

          • fideux

            Hopefully!

          • lowercaselettersonly

            I can dream!

          • Dan Atatakai

            Why would that be? What has he actually done which is illegal?

          • Carol Chadbourne

            Altruistic…he will start WW3 before Nov.

          • templepearson

            Don’t hold your breath on that. He, like the criminal Clintons before him, is untouchable.

          • b_paolucci

            As the saying goes: From your mouth to God’s ears.

          • gutz22

            And pigs may fly.Few things that are unfortunately evident. One because he is black or half black he will not be impeached after all he is the second black president after Billy Bob Clinton. Two there is enough evidence of his total disregard for the consititution which should have already started impeachment but those elected 535 congress swine that feed at the public trough refuse to defend the rule of law.I doubt that even with control of the sensate & the house will their behavior change they already have violated their oath of office.Congress is part of the ruling elite with emperor Obongo at the helm.

          • MarleneMoulthrop

            W ell if thee is a dem pres, there is always veto power Anyone that would help put those whacky radicals in office. The debt has been cut by 3 T, you want it all cut, well we will be in the worst depression ever. The gov has to spend and under spending will kill the economy. (eco101) Did you ever hear of the word balance?.

          • Jimmy Ledkins

            Don’t worry about that. .. you know you won’t see them for years from now

          • Aochoa

            Why would the 99% middle class and poor working families ever vote for a person who only represents the top 1% Filthy Rich and their special interests?

          • susanneB

            Just talk. …but I wish also to see him kicked out.

        • 20ozSoda

          I don’t know WHAT we’re gonna do! My Congressman told me there’s nothing he can be impeached on…he has to commit a felony like treason, or such as…I’m not having good thoughts. Mr. O is a snake in the grass and I believe there’s SOMETHING!!!!!!!! OR AT LEAST STAND UP TO HIM . He’s a dictator and what he said to those governors should be proof and bullying! AND, has tore this country apart, neighbor against neighbor, instead of trying to defuse some of this calamity!!! I would think breaking the LAW would be reason enough for impeachment.??? “THEY” say, he’s breaking the law over this Obamacare by changing the laws after going into effect. Something bad wrong is going on.

          • DefendConstitution

            Treason for one. 2. Failure to follow the oath of office. 3. Eelective enforcement of laws. 4. Oversteping his authority by bypassing Congress. 5. Fraud. There are many more if one chooses to dig.

          • George Breithaupt

            This is really not very specific. how did he commit treason, how did he fail to follow his oath of office, I think you me selective enforcement of laws and again which ones. He has used the Presaidential executive order far fewer times than any president since gerald Ford. And executive orders have been an accepted use of authority for many decades. If this is what you mean then every American President since Herbert hoover is guilty of treason. anyway all executive orders are subject to examination by congress.fraud? i suppose you mean the thing about being able to keep your doctor is what you mean the part about saying you could keep your doctor, etc. this is, perhaps a ticklish one. for the most part he was right. however, I would say what have you been paying attention to all your life? Not the president of the United States. if a statement like that is an impeachable offense then every president would have been impeached. “Read my lips. NO NEW TAXES.” George H.W.Bush, who subsequently had to pass new taxes. Not an impeachable offense. Now I am not asking you to go on and on but i do want to hear some specifics. Because the only compelling argument against Obama is that he is black.

          • bmack

            For specifics, Obama has unilaterally changed laws voted on by congress without letting the congress vote on the changes. He has appointed several people to positions without the consent of congress by declaring them “recess appointments” when congress was not actually in recess. He has blocked congressional hearings into many questionable activities (IRS scandal, Benghazi, etc). Obama has mandated spending (foreign aid, Haiti relief) that was not cleared by congress. He has also carried on with encouraging continuing resolutions when congress is required by the constitution to pass budgets every year. Is this enough or shall I go on?

          • 20ozSoda

            YEP! THAT’S SUFFICIENT! (UNFORTUNATELY) :/

          • Joyce Meredith

            Only in your narrow little mind.

          • Billie F Smith

            You just descibed yourself! Why don’t you do some research, wake up and see what is really going on in OUR world!

          • michael cole

            The President cannot block a Congressional investigation.. if he could I am sure that Nixon and Reagan would have blocked quite a few of them… Foreign aide is in the budget and relief to Haiti was passed by Congress (can you show me actual instances that he actually appropriated money when it was not authorized by Congress; a 1870 act of Congress makes it illegal to do that, so I would be curious as to where he did)…

            Congress is required to pass a budget that the President can veto.. but not too many budgets made it to the President’s desk. I would think that accusation is more at the desk of Congress that has passed fewer laws and been more polar than any Congress in history.

            Until you can show me an actual instance (not from a fox, drudge or breitbart report) that shows him guilty of treason which is specifically spelled out in the Constitution…

            “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

            “No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

            The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.”

            Article 3 Section 3

          • bmack

            No, the president can not directly block a congressional hearing, but he has done a good job of silencing anyone who will testify. IRS officials? Pleading the 5th and running in circles. Benghazi? Hillary Clinton never really answered any questions, simply said, and I quote, “What does it matter?” and then fell off the scene.

            As to the budget fiasco, (yes, I do realize there is finally one in place) the president threatened veto, threw anyone who opposed his budget ideas under the bus, and did his absolute best to muck up the works. No, he can not DIRECTLY propose/alter a budget, but he has a very loud pulpit from which to speak and a huge amount of media influence. Trying to blame the lack of a budget on the republicans or Cruz specifically is absolutely absurd since the Reps gave ground on every turn and eventually caved, while Obama and the Dems got almost everything they wanted. This doesn’t sound much like compromise to me.

            I never said that the president was guilty of treason…. that has to be determined in the investigations that are ongoing.

            As to the Haiti relief, I admit that I have not done much research into that, and do not have the time right now. I shall leave that one be.

            Your comment about Fox amuses me to no end… To think that Fox is unreliable and NBC or what have you is reliable is absolutely laughable. In the current consumer data, Fox is actually the most trusted news source in America, and that is by quite a large margin. Every news source we have at our disposal is biased in some form, and to deny that is ridiculous. Case in point…. All the information on how the Affordable Care Act would affect the markets was available for years, and yet the AP and NBC/ABC lauded it to no end and covered up clear evidence that there were problems until it was just completely unavoidable. Every news source is flawed, so don’t pick and choose which ones you believe.

          • 20ozSoda

            BRAVO!

          • Joyce Meredith

            Trusted by idiots that FAUX NEWS feeds.

          • Billie F Smith

            Like all the money he has sent to Al Qaeda and weapons to the Mexican Cartels(Fast & Furious). That makes him a traitor!

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            So you don’t consider backing the Muslim Brotherhood as treasonous? How about appointing several of them to places of high security? These people want to kill us, want to bring sharia law to the U.S. but you don’t find that the least bit treasonous? So you are one of them. Which mosque do you attend?

          • Joyce Meredith

            Yes and all Congress has done is nothing. They continue to do nothing so Obama is doing what he needs to do. There is no Benghazi, IRS, or Fast and Furious scandal. That has all been debunked. And BTW….didn’t we lose more than 4 people in a war based on lies? Where was your outrage then?

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            You honestly believe that was all made up? The American ambassador and three other Americans didn’t actually die? The IRS wasn’t really targeting conservatives? Fast and Furious didn’t really happen? Well that will be a real comfort to the families of the dead to know that it didn’t actually happen and their loved ones are still alive. I knew you people were cold hearted, but that’s an all time low.

          • bmack

            I must say this…. I have not seen any comments on this list about the president being of a different skin color except by you. None of us are using racist terms, we are pointing out what we see as faults in a person just like we would for any other person in the office. There is no racist speech on our side (granted there are a few old-school racists on both sides, but are in a tiny minority). However, whenever these discussions come up, there is always someone who accuses others of racism.

            You are making comments about his race.

            You are assuming we think that way.

            You are assigning importance to race.

            You are determining that race is a factor in why people agree or disagree with his policies, even when no one else is saying that.

            You sir, are the racist in the room, and you should be ashamed that you can’t actually argue ideas and instead have to resort to name calling.

          • john4637

            The leftists intend to use that clapped up race card to excuse and defend this man Obama & the democratic socialist party even if it leads up to a racial civil war.

          • hittingyourfeels

            I’ve seen 3 and this is my first time here. Take out the trash and then we’ll talk.

          • Frank Castle

            George.. stop acting so DENSE…

          • James Driver

            You sir are a moron. Racist? You people need to pull your heads out of your ass then maybe you’ll see something other than black.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Oh who gives a crap what color he is. You blasted progs and dems just have to play the race card when you’re backed into a corner. I’d say letting an American ambassador die, along with three other Americans is an impeachable act.

          • 20ozSoda

            THANK YOU! :)

          • Joyce Meredith

            Treason? How so? Bypassing congress? When? Fraud? How? You are the one making the accusations so the burden of proof is on you.

          • SusieQ

            Where do you go for news, puzzling.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            So you didn’t hear him say, himself, that if congress didn’t do what he wanted, he had a phone and a pen? I’d certainly call that bypassing congress, in his own words.

          • George Breithaupt

            It’s Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity etc who are the race baiter trying to tear the country apart.

          • 20ozSoda

            Seriously?

          • john4637

            Always using the race card, never heard either one make a derogatory racial statement. This guy Breithaupt is a baiter!

          • Joyce Meredith

            Yes…seriously.

          • Frank Castle

            You’re an Idiot… You ASKED for SPECIFICS.. GOT em.. now you’re DIVERTING to some other excuse… LOSER!!

          • James Ray DeBerry

            Your President is the Racist. He involved himself in the middle of a murder trial and sent his buddies Sharpton and Jackson down to Florida to push people into a racial frenzy that never would have happened had they not been there to stir the pot. Racism will die when it is no longer a useful tool to evade real issues.

          • 20ozSoda

            Yep, STIRRED THE POT! When HE could’ve defused the situation!!!!

          • James Driver

            Bill Clinton was impeached by one house for lying. Your congressman is wrong if he says he hasn’t done anything to be impeached for. Sounds like he supports obummer.

          • Joyce Meredith

            He was not impeached. He served his full presidential term.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Are you really that stupid Joyce? Apparently you don’t know the meaning of impeachment. Clinton was indeed impeached. That DOES NOT mean he was removed from office. Why don’t you get a dictionary and look up a few words like impeachment. Of course all it really is, is a slap on the wrist. He probably caught more hell from Hilary. Hope so. He’s vile. And so is your man Obama. Vile, evil, deceitful, arrogant, and dangerous. He thinks he is the King of America. He’s trying very hard to be a dictator. Maybe you should study pre-war Germany. You might learn a few things about what is happening in the U.S. But I doubt it, you don’t have enough sense.

          • 20ozSoda

            YEA , gettin’ a lot of BS. Just my OPINION. Seems a lot of that goin’ around. Makes me want to say, “do I have STUPID written on my forehead?” AND, another one that won’t be gettin’ my vote……just sayin’. ;-)

          • NavVette

            Your congressman lied to you. This president has done plenty to be impeached for. For heaven’s sake, they went after Nixon for something his campaign manager’s did that he hadn’t even been aware of. They got Clinton for lying under oath.

          • Joyce Meredith

            But Clinton was not impeached.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Yes he was Joyce. Look it up. You do know how to use Google don’t you? Or do you rely on snopes? William Jefferson Clinton was impeached for lying under oath. He WAS impeached. He was not removed from office. One does not automatically lead to the other.

          • 20ozSoda

            Better send him another letter, huh? I was thinking he was full of “stuff” the whole time reading his comments. Thanks guys and gals.

          • Cheryl Harless

            Your congressman lied to you (a lot of that going around!). He can be impeached for ANY reason or for misconduct. It doesn’t have to be “illegal”!

            http://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q115.html

            Clinton was impeached – Remember Monica Lewinski?

            However Obama has done several things that ARE illegal starting with using a false SSN. Failure on many occasions to uphold and protect the constitution. Failure to protect and defend Americans at home and abroad. He’s changed laws with a stroke of the pen, and ONLY congress can do that.

            He’s not alone. A large percent of congress is to blame for allowing it and they need to be weeded out too.

          • Joyce Meredith

            Dictator? Putin is a dictator. If Obama was you can be in prison right now for what you just posted.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Oh he hasn’t made it yet, but he’s well on his way. Why don’t you do some actual research on pre-war Germany. Your man acts just like Adolph Hitler did. The Germans thought he was either harmless or wonderful too. And he did many of the things your man is doing now. Do some research woman.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Clinton was impeached for lying in court.

        • bendecido

          I guess that means all of those democrats that voted for him the second time after knowing the disaster of his first term. And to all Republicans, don’t sit on your a*s when it comes time to vote on November to vote out the Rinos and elect Repubs who care about this country.

        • john4637

          And WE are letting him be as dangerous as he wants to be!

          • SusieQ

            Vote, Vote, Vote and then he’ll be a lame duck clown. People did not vote for Romney because of his religion! That is incredulous considering who we have, laughable. The problem is cheating by the union machine and god only knows what else, don’t know the answer to that. There is something strange about all this that I have never seen before.

        • Eugene Sevene

          Amen; the people have allowed Washington to do as they please for so long that they now believe they can anything they want and all the people now do is complain.How many contact their representatives every week. Need to take the time or we are lost.

        • Cheryl Webb Clair

          The problem is the congress that does nothing to stop him.

          • 20ozSoda

            I know. What’s up with that! Sometimes strength IS in numbers! What are they afraid of?

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            I’m wondering what they’ve been promised by the puppet master. Or what he’s holding over them.

        • friday51

          EXACTLY – OPERATION AMERICAN SPRING. MAY 16, 2014

        • colleenf

          And as dangerous as the DC political elites who ALLOW this to continue to happen.

        • Mark Luttrell

          The people voted him in. Twice. Giving him the authority. Nobody’s letting him take these actions, he has the authority to.
          If impeachment is what u r referring to, look who steps up into power. The Vice president.
          I dont think America would b any safer with him at the helm.

        • Carol Chadbourne

          AS much as this may be true….what do you suggest we do about it?? I have been very active for a couple years now…getting all info possible to judge which petitions, which surveys , in priority, do I send out first…getting in excess of 100 snail mail 6 days a week, I’m backed up…starting my 7th ROLL of stamps since last Oct…as some postage is already paid for by the sender. I’ve heard from everybody including Oliver North to the Speaker himself and everything in between. I’m growing tired with it. BUT, I keep on keeping on.

          • morgus

            I think we should be patient until after the Nov elections, if nothing changes then we need to unite and get a game plan. Remember Obama is looking for any reason to declare Marshall Law.

        • RainahNess

          he’s as dangerous as our elected and *appointed* officials have allowed him to be……….. until the Senate is willing to hold him to the consitution, and thus impeach him for overreaching the powers of his office, and thereby hold his predecessor to the powers of the constitution, there’s not a lot the *people* can do to stop his dangerous mis-applications of his ‘elected’ status……….. (he was NOT elected to be a tyrant, just a president)

          • morgus

            The elected officials are supposed to represent the people aren’t they?

      • mikecalvert

        Good idea Cheri’

      • downintx

        Do we not have anyone in D.C. with the balls to stand up to this moron???

        • Melissa Webster Rhodes

          Check out Trey Gowdy from our state of South Carolina. Look into the investigations he has initiated and the questions he’s demanded be answered. He has no problem calling Obama out.

        • George Breithaupt

          Which Moron? Boehonner or Cruz??

      • Aliel The Heretic

        If you think Obama being out of the whitehouse is the problem, you obviously don’t understand the problem yet.

        Republican, Democrat, some people just cannot see that they act like enemies, but work together when the public is not looking.

        Left, Right, Left, Right, the march of tyranny moves on.

        When one builds the foundation needed for tyranny, the other uses it.

        Need I remind everyone that if Bush had not pushed for the passage of the Patriot Act (which destroyed the 4th amendment) and the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, we would not have the “national security force, just as well funded, just as well armed as the military” that we have today.

        • lshayden

          I’m tending to agree with you, Aliel.

        • StrangernFiction

          It’s Left, Left, Left, Left. The Rs are statists as well.

        • nigsSuck

          well stated.

        • DefendConstitution

          True but stop and think about what was going on when the Patriot Act was passed. I dont think you could have found 100 people nationwide who did not support Bush at that time.

          • Joyce Meredith

            I never supported Bush at any time.

          • Cheryl Webb Clair

            Oh gee, is that suppose to be a surprise Joyce? One never would have guessed that you never supported Bush. Well here’s a surprise for you, I have never and will never support BO or Hilary either.

        • GRusling

          The Patriot Act can (and should) be repealed on the grounds that it’s unconstitutional. Congress and the President combined do not have any authority to alter the Constitution, so the Patriot Act is, in and of itself ILLEGAL because it ignores the REQUIREMENTS of the Constitution.

          Our Bill of Rights is not a list of SUGGESTIONS to the federal government; it’s a list of COMMANDS by the STATES which created that government. Anyone within the federal government who violates JUST ONE of those commands id guilty of violating their Oath of Office because each and every one of them swore any oath to “SUPPORT AND DEFEND” that constitution against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. All who have failed to do so are GUILTY and should be removed from office, including the President and members of the Supreme Court…

      • threebarrs

        He is not a clown, nor do I think he is stupid. I try in comments to use politically correct terminology for Obama, but he is an evil man, who hates the USA and wants us to be a third world country with him as dictator. And his staunchest supporter, George Soros is backing him to get it done because he is another evil person as well!

        • Rollingstone72

          Well said, threebarrs. My reply would echo yours.

        • Gloria Myler

          Your exactly correct…..

        • Barbie

          obama has Soros using him as his puppet to bring down the USA you didn’t know this

          • michael cole

            And the Tea Party has the Koch Brothers… your point?

          • Lou Cifer

            The 6 biggest political donors were unions that contributed mostly to Democrats, they gave 15 times as much as the Koch Bros… who are 59th on the list of top political donors.

        • StrangernFiction

          Pure Evil.

        • Joyce Meredith

          Government threat? This is the USA not Russia.

      • P00dy

        Smart advice… I’m in.

      • David Worley

        Quote “his stupid ass” Stop name calling … LOL

      • Albert Levy

        Here, here … Agreed

      • George Breithaupt

        How exactly is he a clown? I really haven’t received any really well formulated arguments on this question. The economy is getting better, the deficit has been cut in half (not the debt mind you but the difference between the budget and expected revenues) the healthcare system has been revamped to include the uninsured who were a burden on the taxpayers and anyone who used a hospital. Wages for many low income earners will be rising which will lift a huge burden off the taxpayer, we have had far fewer acts of terrorism committed upon this country and its foreign service offices, than any administration in the past two decades and he has resorted to using the controversial Presidential executive order fewer times than any president since Gerald Ford. He is a well spoken individual, obviously well-educated and erudite. I guess the only reason I can see that he is a clown is that he insists on appearing in public in blackface like those olde time mistrials did.

        • Frank Castle

          George, how many sets of KNEEPADS have you worn out since Obama got elected???

        • James Ray DeBerry

          The economy is NOT better. Your mass media has misinformed you. Quantitative easing (the fed making fake dollars) has been holding up the stock market until the midterm elections are over. Then the crash will come and we will suffer an even greater fallout than the crash of 1929.Hide and watch.

      • Myrtle Linder

        His favorite tools , Threats, name calling and I can do anything I want to do. Don’t be mistaken he is a pro at following through, with all the evil threats that is contained in his little black antichrist soul. He knows that he has the senate, the congress and Satan tied behind him. I wonder what he has on each of his followers that he gets such loyalty.

      • candy martin

        Obama is a clown, but he’s not the most dangerous figure in the White House right now, that would Valerie Jarrett – his puppet master.

      • susandanielspi

        I filed a lawsuit in 2012 in OH when I found Obama has been using a phony SSN since 1986. It was an effort to keep him off the ballot. A Republican judge threw it out. I tried to do my part.

      • Greg

        lock and load,,,thats how

      • higgy01

        The people we elect to congress have the ability to muzzle and/or legally get rid of Obama. It is up to us to elect the people with the stones to do what they can do according to the Constitution.

      • JoJo58

        I’m waiting for it to occur to the democrat run states to realize that they too are being threatened by their messiah. This is why the Convention of States is so very important. States need to take back their rights.

      • Becki Wimsatt-Harris

        You GO, Cheri’

      • Ron

        Yeh bring a right wing numb nuts back in office like the idiot you elected before him. He sure will fix things right up.. idiots…

      • Chad3434

        He is dangerous because Democrats and Republicans let him be dangerous. Hello Obama, Washington spends too much. Oh I forgot I am not a governor.

      • mperkins2

        He’s kind of like the clown from the movie It.

      • doszap

        That’s easy.

      • SissyO

        only because he is black

      • Netwie

        People said EXACTLY the same things about Dubya….and (to a lesser degree) Clinton…and the other Bush…nothing new.

      • BBunsen

        Y’all do realize that President Obama’s term is up in January 2017, and that he’ll be out of the White House then, right? So what you can do is wait until then!

      • jeanal5dogs

        People need to start putting the onus where it lies…with the Democratic party.
        Any Democrat is all about the leftist agenda, make no mistake about that.

      • Lois W Lillico

        I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE WITH YOU CHERI!!!

      • Rebecca Loy Lowery

        AMEN!! HE must GO!

      • AJ AYERS

        That’s just it Cheri, we haven’t been able to -DO- ANYTHING !!

      • Dennis

        Four ways; Impeachment, resignation, natural death or assassination. Those are the only ways for a president to lose office that I know.

      • Aubryn

        Consider Operation American Spring patriotsforamerica.ning.com Begins May 16 We Don’t Go Home Till They Do

      • Aochoa

        Hey, the dangerous clown is in Austin, TX, not in the White House. But yes, we do need to remove him from Austin, TX. Texans deserve better.

      • Patsy Charles Pirillo

        2 more years than 8 years of hillary the gop is dying and will soon follow the whigs on the dust heap of history within a few years as soon as texas turns blue

    • frank fitzsimmons

      Not half the clown you are.

      • Norman Taylor

        Found a sheep!

        • frank fitzsimmons

          You did? I can only imagine what you’re going to do with it you backwards hillbilly.

          • dnhook

            Typical response. Wouldn’t expect anything less from a dhimmocrat sheep.

        • Robert Newcomb

          yea…and not half the clown…time and time again we have seen Obama’s actions, blunders, inept policies and world wide fubar’s, and he is now the world laughing stock…and the world see’s him as a CLOWN…he is a complete clown!!!

          • frank fitzsimmons

            The only clowns are Robert and Norm.

          • manliter

            Sorry Frank, but you are clueless and part of the problem America is facing because people like you are so uniformed!

          • frank fitzsimmons

            That’s funny. Just like your statement. I didn’t know I was uniformed, but you are definitely uninformed.

          • James Ray DeBerry

            It’s the Iranian Hostage Crisis all over again. Remember how much the world thought of Carter as the laughingstock of the century? The minute Reagan got elected, they freed them all. That’s the difference between having a real man in the White House and a boy like Carter or O-blame-a!

    • StrangernFiction

      The clown suit is the Trojan Horse. ValJar, BO, et al are destroying this country.

      • frank fitzsimmons

        Actually, ill-informed people such as yourself are what’s destroying this country.

        • Robert Newcomb

          So Frank inform us on enlightened one.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Actually, I wouldn’t dream of telling you, that’s what the tea partiers want to do, think for you. All you need to do is research reputable news sources for yourself, but that requires effort, something most of you posters don’t seem to have time for.

          • Ann Taylor

            See, he (Frank) is just like all the Dems. hey just blah, blah, blah, and can’t put their money where their mouth his. he has no productive thoughts or anything to add to help the situation.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            I’m a thinking Republican, there isn’t many of us from the looks of it.

          • Christy Oestereich Schuld

            Your lack of intelligent answers would have me to think you are not a ‘thinking’ anything….just a troll who is probably unemployed and on food stamps…go play with your free Obama phone and leave the grown ups alone.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Brilliant retort you pathetic tool.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Christy, you wouldn’t know an intelligent thought if it hit you between the eyes.

          • tttt9erfan

            You’re a republican? I don’t believe that. You seem to be quite liberal. Why not admit it and stand behind your true beliefs?

          • frank fitzsimmons

            What you call liberal I call thinking.

          • tttt9erfan

            I agree. You think just like every other liberal I know. Congratulations. We have debated you on facts yet you have no response to any of the valid facts we set forth to you. You’re heavy on the ridicule and put downs but I’ve seen nothing more from you. So, yes, you do think like a liberal. You’ll get no argument from me on that point. I’m guessing we won’t hear much from you now. Facts seem to be your sticking point.

          • Mike Riley

            the dems can’t put their money where their mouth is????? they kicked repub ass in the last two national elections….and put a black man in the white house…how do you expect to be taken seriously when posting lame ass crap like this?

          • Christy Oestereich Schuld

            Tell us what he has done to better the country? YOU can’t because he has done nothing but make it worse…..a thousand times worse than before 2008.

          • manliter

            Talking points Frank. Prove what you don’t know!

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Can’t do that when I’m talking to an idiot.

          • tttt9erfan

            So, you are part of the Tea Party organization? You’ve attended how many tea parties? I have been to numerous and once did anyone attempt to do my thinking for me. In fact, quite the opposite. The group is LIKE MINDED individuals with a common interest in a constitutionally limited gov’t, free market economy and fiscal responsibility. I don’t need anyone to tell me I agree with those 3 things. I’ve known that my entire adult life. You may disagree with those 3 values and goals of the Tea Party but please, don’t try to inform others of things you have no first hand knowledge of. Those of us who participate and support the Tea Party movement are so sick of those you claim to know what we’re all about yet they are so clearly clueless. Disagree all your want to. That is your right. But don’t promote your misinformation as fact.

          • tttt9erfan

            That sentence should read NOT ONCE DID ANYONE…..

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Well that explains everything.

          • Ronald Alan Boostrom

            If your referring to mainstream media then your not getting reputable news.

          • jon

            can you name a reputable news source” i mean one that isnt owned by a globalist…

          • penguincompassion

            He can’t because he ‘ol Frankie boy has nothing to run on. Just a troll who righteously deserves to be ignored.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            I actually think, which separates me from you. You just ramble on with your lunacy.

          • Christy Oestereich Schuld

            Frank what has Obama done to better our country……you have NOTHING……and you call the rest of us non thinking…..you just have a big mouth but nothing to back up your words. You are uniformed and will pay dearly for your stupidity.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            The only people who are going to pay are people like you, who have no critical thinking processes. You’re just a mouthpiece for bigotry and hatred. The vast majority of the public are on to you idiots. Just wait until the next elections and we’ll prove it you once again you dipstick.

        • Txfredn

          Frank, Why don’t you give us some of the real highlights of the Obama Presidency that you really like and how they have moved the world view of America forward!

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Let’s start with the Affordable Health Care Act, but morons such as yourself don’t understand or comprehend the importance of it because you’re blinded by your hatred. I’ll leave it at that. When you develop some coherent thinking processes, get back to me.

          • Kurt

            See all the upvotes for “Obama is a clown” – ? See all the upvote (1 as of now) for your post trumpeting Obamacare (which, if you check the polls, double the people who say it helps them says it hurts them)? Now what does that tell you about sentiment toward Obama and Obamacare? If you actually can think for yourself (not likely based on your posts) you can conclude the vast majority are against Obama and Obamacare. But don’t take my word for it, check realclearpolitics. Check the polls for Obama. His approval is sinking into the 30s. About the same approval Obamacare gets. Your spin is useless now.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            I knew you’d post drivel like this. This website only reflects a certain view, one which for the most part is very biased and very racist. Not interested in what uninformed people think, interested in the right thing for the country. The Affordable Health Care Act is the right thing. You’re just not intelligent enough to know it. Just because people upvote Obama is a clown doesn’t mean they know what they’re talking about. Quite the contrary. Unlike you, I don’t deal in spin, I deal in facts, and your conclusion that the vast majority is against Obama and Obamacare is flat out wrong. He wouldn’t have been reelected you idiot. Guess what, he was!

          • Kurt

            Here are some facts for you:

            38% approval (average) for Obamacare.
            (first link below).

            42% approval (average) for Obama. (second link below).

            Btw, Obamacare has forced millions deal with cancelled policies, when the president and Dems promised that wouldn’t happen. Obamacare has caused millions to find their doctors are now “not in network” when it was promised that would not happen. Millions have seen their insurance rates skyrocket when it was promised Obamacare would save families $2500 per year. And this is all before the parts that will hurt the most people, like the employer mandate, go into effect because Obama, by sheer decree, has postponed those parts of the law until after the elections.

            See, that’s the thing with the tired drivel you sling. You think everyone else is still in that “ooh, aaah, Obama” fog. But the fog has lifted for most, and none of the empty bs you’re so used to dropping has any effect anymore. We can see the emperor has no clothes.

            I’m sure you’ll disappear after checking out these links to the FACTS:

            Obamacare approval:

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

            Obama approval:

            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Statistics are on opinions, opinions are not facts. Please understand the difference.

          • Kurt

            Got nothin’ eh?

          • tttt9erfan

            You’re right Kurt, he’s got nothing. Which is what usually happens when you bring the facts and the truth to the discussion. Liberal are big on thinking if you deny it enough it becomes false and by merely saying enough it can become the truth. Then those nasty facts throw a wrench into the whole argument and then they quit the discussion.

          • tttt9erfan

            Sorry Frank, but you are wrong again.

            sta·tis·tic

            /stəˈtɪstɪk/ Show Spelled [stuh-tis-tik] Show IPA

            noun Statistics.

            a numerical fact or datum, especially one computed from a sample.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            You’re funny.

          • tttt9erfan

            That’s your reply? Really? Why reply at all? How about some substance? Do you have any?

          • Khris Kringle

            Please STFU Frank. Your ignorance is showing. What are you a 12 year old?

          • tttt9erfan

            Frank, he was reelected on the false premise that “if you like your plan you can keep your plan.” Come to find out over 5 million people, so far, didn’t get to keep their plan. Do you know what changes he has made? You should look those up so you can see for yourself the parts he knows won’t work. Did you read where the CBO recently said 33 million Americans will remain uninsured after Obamacare? Wasn’t that the entire purpose for it to begin with? To insure the uninsured? Do you know they aren’t even keeping track of those who do sign up how many were previously uninsured? So it sounds to me that we were lied to from day 1! How can you defend that? Will you defend that?

          • tttt9erfan

            Sorry Frank, you are wrong. The latest Rasmussen poll says that 56% find the law unfavorable. 14% say they have been helped by the law and 33% says they have been hurt by the law. How is that good news? Here’s a link http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

          • frank fitzsimmons

            I am not wrong, you are just quoting opinions. Those are not facts.

          • tttt9erfan

            No Frank, this is not opinion. This is a poll and were you not talking poll numbers? I believe you were. The poll numbers are the closest thing we have to fact when it comes to public opinion. You didn’t quote a poll, I quoted and link a very reliable poll. So how do you blow off what I said?

          • Mary Decker

            Yes he was elected again.. Even my dead relatives voted for him.. Twice I think at a minimum.. That was then and this is now.. He will not get such an easy ride after the Midterm elections..

          • Khris Kringle

            Was waiting for you to pull out the old standard liberal garbage: the race card. Has nothing to do with his race you ignorant troll. Try his policies or lack thereof.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Khris, you have anger management issues.

          • Khris Kringle

            Oh Frank, how is Obamacare working for you now (april 4, 2014) now that anybody with half a brain knows what a complete and utter disaster it is????????????????????

          • frank fitzsimmons

            It’s working great you tool. Unlike you, I have a whole brain, not a half.

          • tttt9erfan

            Frank, when the architect of the legislation doesn’t even want it enacted how good can it be? Obama has changed Obamacare 37 times to date. He doesn’t even think it very good or he would allow it to be enacted as written. Remember they called the Repubs. Hilter for wanting to make changes before the horrendous rollout. Now Obama has change the law 37 times. Beside the fact it is unconstitutional for him to change the law without Congress. So tell me what it is I don’t understand about Obamacare.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Simply not true. You must remember this is a work in progress and no-one in their right mind would think we would roll it out with no problems. This is an attempt to fix problems that currently exist and it is a step in the right direction.

          • tttt9erfan

            They had 3 years and 170 millions dollars to do just he website! They couldn’t even make that happen. When you take over 1/6 th of the economy and take over something as personal as someone’s healthcare, yeah you better get it right!! How dare they attempt to take over our healthcare and screw it up to this extent!! And how do you explain the 38 lawless changes Obama has made to law thus far?

          • tttt9erfan

            There were many many other avenues they could have taken to make the fixes in hc that are needed. Obama wanted this legislation and he did whatever he needed to to get it. Now he got it and it ‘s a disaster of epic proportion. Now the media won’t tell you as much but it isn’t hard to find out Simply look at what the president is doing and has done. No spin. HIs actions alone should tell you something very clearly. But you need to know what he has actually done in order to make any conclusions.

          • tttt9erfan

            Frank are you saying he hasn’t made 38 changes to the law so far? That is a fact and I could list those changes for you if you need me to. This is the biggest problem with you folks on the left. You simply deem something untrue because you don’t want it to be true and you refuse to see the facts. The fact is Obama has changed the law 38 times so far. That isn’t even up for debate. Why don’t you know that if you are so informed as you claim to be?

          • 20ozSoda

            OPINION!…NOT A FACT!

          • Khris Kringle

            Frank, what kind of drugs are you taking cause you are one stupid, moronic person. Tons of FACTS have been presented here and you choose to ignore them all. You complete ignorance of the issues with Ocare is all we need to know. I say we all ignore FRANK from now on. He is probably actually BO himself.

          • lshayden

            Frank, why are there so many people, friends and loved ones, who can’t afford or qualify for this ‘Affordable’ Care Act. There are still thousands of people without insurance and who will remain so. This act is designed to help only small chosen few and not the very ones who need it.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Because it’s not that they can’t afford it, they don’t want to pay for it. We’re already paying way more because of the uninsured who we are then stuck with. This is an attempt to level the playing field. The single biggest issue I have with our system before the Affordable Health Care Act was you can be discriminated against. I had a blood clot when I was younger and couldn’t get insurance afterwards due to their classification of a “preexisting condition”. To deny healthcare for any reason is discrimination. Do you know how many of us would be disqualified if this were allowed to continue? If you look at other countries with this type of healthcare, they’ve been very successful with it. Thank you for your civility. Most people don’t show any on this forum.

          • tttt9erfan

            Fixing preexisting conditions is doable. You don’t have to dismantle the entire system make a few needed fixes. This was never about healthcare-it’s about redistribution. Read your history. In every instance it shows that taking over healthcare is about controlling the people and is a very necessary step in all socialist economies.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Actually it is about healthcare through redistribution. I don’t know where you get your made up statement about this leading to socialism. It’s here to stay so get used to it.

          • Mary Decker

            I do not believe it is here to stay.. After the Midterms I am sure the very first thing that will happen is Obama Care will be repealed and then dismantled.. I just keep thinking of all the wasted time, effort and money spent on this mess. All the people that have suffered through the nightmare that is Obamacare.. All to inflate one twisted man’s ego.. and the minions that always follow this kind of self important nut.. All I know is that Law’s need to be put in place to see that this kind of misuse of Power and our Money can NEVER Happen again..

          • tttt9erfan

            Well props to you for at least admitting it’s about redistribution!! And it is history that tells me all about socialism and the need to take over hc in order to achieve it. Not socialist state happened without the govt take over of hc. Have your read Rules For Radicals? Written by a liberal, read by liberals for many many years, being enacted by a liberal president. So glad though you can admit the redistribution part. Have you ever know a capitalist economy that redistributes the wealth? Of course not! The two ideas are like oil and water. You can’t have a free open market economy and the redistribution of wealth at the same time. Read Levine’s “Liberty or Tyranny.” Spells it out very simply. It’s one or the other but never both at the same time.

          • lshayden

            Frank, I think you are misinformed and an absolute idiot. The people I’m speaking of are personal friends of mine. I happen to know their individual situations are very difficult. They have preexisting conditions such as Fibromyalgia which prevents them from being able to work full time jobs. They are single people who are late 20′s to 30, the very age range this Act is supposed to be targeting. However, they are no longer insured by their parents insurance and can now not qualify for this ‘so-called’ healthcare due to the fact they do not make enough money according to the guidelines. Wake up and smell the coffee, Bozo. The only alternative these very educated and smart individuals will have in the future is to either go on disability or try to make it as self employed in their own business online. They don’t want to be a burden to the state or the our country. They are simply trying to figure out how they can take care of themselves in the future.

          • Jack Napper

            Frank, I’ve read your posts with interest and have come to a couple of conclusions: you ARE obviously uninformed, misinformed, or totally brain dead. As an immigrant to this country (legally, I might add….I’m now a naturalized US citizen AND a combat veteran of the US ARMY) from one of the countries that have had this type of unconscionable government interference in something the government should have NO part in (Germany) I can unequivocably state that you have NO idea whereof you speak. My daughters both see 60% of their pay being withheld for taxes (both earn the equivalent of minimum wage) most of which goes to pay for social programs and healthcare for those who not only don’t work, but don’t want to. Before you run your mouth (or fingers as in this case!) please have at least some idea of what you speak!

          • Txfredn

            Thank you Frank for your response! Open discussion without name calling always shows the level of intelligence of the responders! Now, I have a very serious question for you..As a GS-12 for the NSA, why are you responding or even getting in on these post? When your job is to monitor and track the post? Or have you ‘jumped the fence’ and can’t stand to not spew the venom all over the place! Oh yes….your real name isn’t really frank fitzsimmons!

          • frank fitzsimmons

            That’s all tools like you do. Name calling. Nice try. You shouldn’t be commenting on intelligence. Trust me.

          • Txfredn

            OK! I’ll be glad to trust you right after I keep my doctor and keep my insurance policy, push the reset button with the Russians, Hear all the testimony from the Benghazi survivors, and finish the NSA data storage facility, and get all of my guns back from the drug runners, and see the millions of Americans go back to work, and see our borders properly managed, and …well I am sure that even in your frame of mind you can see where I am going ! Right ‘Patriot’? Or do you think that’s a dirty word also?

          • Ronald Alan Boostrom

            You just proved your an idiot thanks.

          • Mary Decker

            The affordable care act ( Obama Care ) is in no way affordable. It has caused untold amount of pain and suffering for million of American families.. people are loosing their jobs or having their hours cut back because employers can not afford to comply with Obama Care. The cost of the Premiums for the new insurance people have to now buy because Obama Lied when he said ” If You Like Your Insurance you have now You can keep It” is some times up to 16 times more expensive then the insurance they had before that met their needs and they liked.. this new insurance covers things they do not want or need and doesn’t cover what they want and need desperately.. and do not get me started on keeping your Dr. Or Hospital…No sir you can tell me a lot of things and I just might believe you, but at this point NO ONE can sell America on Obama Care.. It is a mess that no one wants to be involved in.. Only the Welfare dregs and illegal criminals want this.. one more freebie at someone else’s expense..

          • BB63

            Understanding that there is no such thing as a free lunch and that sheeples votes are easily bought does not equal hatred.

        • Dan Chandler

          No Frank, it’s communist sons of bitches like you that are running this country into the ground.

        • Peter

          Please explain why Texas is not a growing state

    • George Breithaupt

      How exactly is he a clown? I really haven’t received any really well formulated arguments on this question. The economy is getting better, the deficit has been cut in half (not the debt mind you but the difference between the budget and expected revenues) the healthcare system has been revamped to include the uninsured who were a burden on the taxpayers and anyone who used a hospital. Wages for many low income earners will be rising which will lift a huge burden off the taxpayer, and we have had far fewer acts of terrorism committed upon this country and its foreign service offices, than any administration in the past two decades and he has resorted to using the controversial Presidential executive order fewer times than an president since Gerald Ford. He is a well spoken individual, obviously well-educated and erudite. I guess the only reason I can see that he is a clown is that he insists on appearing in public in blackface like those olde time mistrials did.

      • Kurt

        Oh Good Lord. Are you serious. “the healthcare system has been revamped to include the uninsured who were a burden on the taxpayers…” Wow, that’s total bs. Complete and utter garbage. It isn’t true. It’s spin. It’s what you unknowingly (knowingly?) have been taught to believe. And it is utter bs. You got more waking up to do than I can make a dent in at the moment – maybe later, but I have other things to do.

    • matism

      The Brown Clown.

    • Myrtle Linder

      Clown? Clowns are lovable!!!!!!

    • The duck

      Please do not insult clowns like that. Clowns are funny guys in circus’s that are working hard to entertain.
      Obama is working very hard to destroy what has served America very well for 250 years.
      But I do agree with you on your concept of Obama. I’d like to see him have a massive heart attack without any help.

    • TonyDales

      The “evil” scary kind!

    • gwiliker

      Conservatives suck. We love President Obama. Elected him twice. You are going to lose the House this year with your Fascism. President Obama will be remembered as one of the greatest Presidents in the history of the United States. Get you head out of your backside.

    • Ron

      You are not too far from a clown yourself dimbag…

    • Robert Schuster

      He is not a clown he is a dictatorial, egotistical, psychopath. If not in politics he would be leading gang bangers and building a mafia type organization with himself as the Don. He is acting like a Don with threats, payoffs and lies. He is very very dangerous and this country had better wake up, we are in big trouble.

    • beelp

      who needs to be taken down…

    • MadMikey

      But he is the scary clown from Stephan Kings “IT”>

    • Sungoddess

      gotta love Christians .

  • Richard Baumeister

    Perry better watch out, he may end up having an accident

    • Larry Miller

      True, but every American should be mad. Obama’s words are dictatorial.

      • Harry

        You missed something don’t you know is the KING.
        It would be the Burger King King as he is a joke anyhow. A bad Joke!!!

      • StrangernFiction

        Tyrants tend to sound that way now and again.

    • Terry Ford

      Yep, there have been a lot of “suicides” connected to nobama.

      • Paulita Gilberto

        Continuing the trend of Clinton, only his perps ended up in jail.

        • Lauranne Wood

          Or found dead/suicide???? Accident???Yeah, right!

      • Lauranne Wood

        The ole Clinton rule book!

    • http://www.the-eggman.com/ TS Eggleston

      Yes – suicide, Obama Clinton style – by shooting himself in the back of the head while his hands were tied. Or an unfortunate plane crash or other ‘tragic accident.’

  • Hargraves Ian

    Hitler has only got one ball, Eric has 2 but very small. Beohner is very similar and Harry has no balls at all. Get rid of the lot of them and after the senate is back in the hands of conservatives Impeach IslamaObama so his is even more toothless than he already is.

  • Templar 6

    Resist oppression and never submit.

  • mark post

    Who is this “Infrastructure” supposed to serve? I haven’t seen anything but illegals working on our roads. Who is this for and whats it all about.

  • Haymster

    Obama Believes That He Has Us By The Throat However Inevitably It Will Be Him Being Held By The Throat Resulting In Him And His Socialist Ideology And Regime Being Choke Slammed To Hell From Where It Originated.

  • Otto Jacob Walker Jr

    “I’m highly offended by that.” who gives a fck AMERICA’S OFFENDED BY YOU

    • Kellie Spencer Fluegge

      Perry was highly offended by Obama. Why would America be offended by Governor Perry? ?

      • siren1873

        No,Obama was saying HE was highly offended. That was part of Obama’s quote.

        • Kellie Spencer Fluegge

          “As a matter of fact, he [Obama] said at that meeting, he said, ‘If I hear any of you pushing back, making statements about Washington spends too much money, you’ll hear from me,” he said, adding, “I’m highly offended by that.”

          Where it says “adding;” That’s a tag on by Perry. Where did you people learn English?

          • Christy Oestereich Schuld

            Apparently not from Smart Ass High where you obviously attended.

          • frank fitzsimmons

            Christy, you have anger management issues.

        • penguincompassion

          As for me, I couldn’t care less if Obama is highly offended. Oh boo hoo, Obama got his panties in a wad because other leaders such as Perry don’t agree with him. I’m just cryin’ my eyes out. ;-)

      • Otto Jacob Walker Jr

        talkin to obama

  • Cheryl Newcomb

    FU Obama! Hope these Governers will fight tooth and nail against this corrupt, fraud, liar, deceitful usurper dictator.

    • frank fitzsimmons

      Let me guess, you’re Robert’s alter-ego.

      • Christy Oestereich Schuld

        And let us guess your an Obama puppet who has his head so far up Obama’s ass (and no doubt enjoying it) that you can not tell light from day.

        • frank fitzsimmons

          Another intelligent post from a not so intelligent person.

  • James

    Our terrorist-in-chief is following his agenda to destroy our country and will brook no defiance !!!
    we as Americans must show our resistance by civil disobedience as a nation not a mob , you sheeple MUST wake up to what this terrorist/traitor is doing and try to un-do the damage he has done !!!

  • Andy Jorgensen

    Hell the rest of the world thinks he is an IDIOT and don’t believe a word he says so why should we be any different. Get rid of him and his mooching wife!!!